Just got steamrolled in this deity game

Soulbringer

Chieftain
Joined
May 10, 2016
Messages
6
Hi all, I'm a long time reader that just recently moved from Immortal to Deity.
I was able to win my first two games on deity, both with all standard settings with random map type which turned out to be small continents (SV as Spain) and archipelago (Diplo victory as Nabucodonosor).

I know and feel that playing on archipelago or even small continents is easier than playing on a big landmass map like my last game but I'm struggling a lot every time I start near some aggressive AI on deity, so I'm here to ask some advices.

I've played as England and started in a pretty good spot with river, hills, whales, marble and a good amount of sheep, horses, cattle and stone. I've built scout -> monument - shrine and opened with Tradition, while during exploration I walked into America just next to me with New York only a few tiles away from London...
The turn after I've met him, he was already coveting my lands so, seeing the opportunity (No other Civ met and unprotected workers going around) I declared on him and proceeded to steal two workers and to kill an archer or two.
During war he stopped expanding while pumping out a lot of military and I decided to forward settle him with York (a really good spot with 3 lux, but maybe I choose the wrong spot, too hard to defend). A few turns later, with York swarmed by his units he asked for peace and even signed a DoF with me?!

After, I started building CB (4) and expanded to the east with Nottingham and (later) Hastings but i felt that I was already too far behind especially with NC, which came up around turn 110...during this time, both America and Monty (who has came down from the north with Texcoco, but was friendly...) started pressing my borders with A LOT of units so I bribed them into war with each other for two times with no result: they just don't fight (even if I gave them open borders), the non-wars last for ten turn after which they both declared on me at the same time!
Washington upgraded all of his melee to minuteman while I've yet to get Longbows...
and then it was just game over.

I want to retry this game to improve so, can someone help me?
Thanks!
 

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Maybe DOWing him was not a good idea but I've got the feeling that without worker stealing it would have been even worse...and when Chicago was founded my position was already too bad.

The problem is that when I'm being pressed so hard by an aggressive AI I can't easily decide anymore between spending my production on military or growing...so I try to do both and fail badly every time.
 
Facing muskets with CBs is no fun! I think your early DOW was fine. I would have skipped the York spot, in favor of the Chicago location. Your claiming the York spot guarantees more war and, as you point out, it is not defensible.
...the non-wars last for ten turn after which they both declared on me at the same time!
That is really stuck. Since they just peaced out, you cannot bribe them to fight again.

Will Washington sign a Defensive Pact with you? That could save the game, but only if Monty is in the turn order before Washington.

The other thing I would try is to go back to the turns before you bribed Washington to DOW Monty and see if he will go to war with you instead. Whatever Monty is bringing to the fight cannot be as harsh as the American UU! The mutual war improves diplo, and Washington might stay at war longer. At the very least, you want him and Monty denouncing each other after they make peace. You don't need to take cities, just break up their friendship.
 
I have not tried to sign a defensive pact with him, I have to admit that usually I just ignore them...I'll restart the game and maybe will give that a try.
I don't remember the turn order, but why Monty has to be before Washington for this to work?

In the new game I'll try to settle only in the land east of London as you said but I fear that Washington will become hostile and aggressive anyway. I think I'll try turtling a little more while focusing on tech/population hoping to fill the science gap asap.

Given the map and the neighbors, how many cities would you settle?
 
I'll restart the game and maybe will give that a try.
Do not restart the game, if you can help it. Restarting from scratch changes the AI leader personalities and introduces too much RNG when what you are really trying to do is to learn how to war better. I would really recommend rolling back only to when you bribed Washington to DOW Monty. That is the most recent turn that you have the opportunity to change the game outcome. But Washington might not go for the deal, and even that might not be enough to keep Washington contained. Absent that choice, roll back to when you spawned the settler that became York. I do not think you will learn as much from playing this game from the turn 0 autosave initial.

I don't remember the turn order, but why Monty has to be before Washington for this to work?
The main benefit of DP is to pull AI into a war, hopefully breaking a DOF. It sounds like Washington and Monty agreed to DOW you. Now, suppose you have DP with Washington and that happens, Monty going before Washington: Monty DOWs you on his turn. On Monty's turn, the DP causes Washington to DOW him. On Washington's turn, he is no longer obligated to DOW you, and he is already at war at that point with Monty, so he will not DOW you. You can survive the DOW from Monty, even if Washington does not really help.

But if Washington goes first: Washington DOWs you, ending the DP. Then on Monty's turn, Monty DOWs you too. Game over.

Given the map and the neighbors, how many cities would you settle?
Four. When trying new things and a new difficulty, I always play Tradition. If I play Tradition, I always want four cities. If I only get three, the game feels like a failure. Sometimes I will play Tradition with five or six cities, but that is only because I want to deny the space to an AI. The fifth and sixth cities rarely help, but they always make National Wonders more problematic. Usually they at least do not slow down timings for Oxford. (Oxford still needs more hammers though.) I would put York on the cattle at the tip of the bay. Hastings I would have one hex to NW but it is okay as-is. Nottingham is okay, as you are running out of space. The land is all pretty fertile and you can run three internal cargo ships back to the cap. Yes, another lux would be nice, but I think you are good to go!
 
Ok so I'll try without restarting the game. But I think that the oldest save is about turn 80 and York at that time was already been founded. Let me see if I manage to make a defensive pact with America.

Inviato dal mio ONE A2003 utilizzando Tapatalk
 
From your screen shot, at turn 81 the Chicago location is still up for grabs (and you have a settler). If (and only if) you have not told Washington that you will not settle near him, I recommend trying to snag that bay.
 
I have to say you saved my game, thanks a lot! All it worked out perfectly: I settled the Chicago spot before him and then blocked two of his settlers by buying tiles. He also signed with me a defensive pact which turned out awesome!
Two turns later Monty declared on me and Washington started slaughtering his units with minutemens and cavalry BUT for only ten turns...then they made peace and, what a nonsense, the following turn signed a DoF...
Even so I continued the war alone and was able to raze a useless city and puppet another one. Now, around turn 180, my troops are marching on Aztec capital and America is still my best friend. Let's see how this will go on!

Inviato dal mio ONE A2003 utilizzando Tapatalk
 
Glad to hear that it worked out! Screen shot?

But be a little cautious, Washing might break the DOF to DOW you...
 
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