Just had Formal War declared on me by two AI civs that hadn't denounced me

That's a Joint War, available at Foreign Trade. Why it's considered Formal - I guess so Tomyris doesn't propose someone do something that goes against her agenda? Although, the surprise in Surprise War is for everyone in the game not just the target so if two people are in on it the surprise is dampened.
 
Thanks chaps. It will have been a joint war since the DoWs were simultaneous.

Now to clean their clocks.
 
For some weird reason, if there are two civs declaring a war without warning at the same time, it's not as bad as when it was just one civ doing it.

Don't ask me how the logic behind it works.
 
Well, if two leaders decided you are a threat to humanity maybe they have a point.
Or perhaps they are not serious war mongers because they both respect an agreement and helping their friend.

It also works the other way around. If you can find a civ to support you you in your planned war you will get less penalty.
 
Felis Renidens said:
Well, if two leaders decided you are a threat to humanity maybe they have a point.
Or perhaps they are not serious war mongers because they both respect an agreement and helping their friend.

It also works the other way around. If you can find a civ to support you you in your planned war you will get less penalty.
Click to expand...

After all, Nazi Germany and Japan should get less warmonger penalty because they declared war on the USA together.

No. That's not how it works. Just because you're doing it together doesn't mean you have a point. It only means you're both a dirty warmonger.
 
Leyrann said:
Just because you're doing it together doesn't mean you have a point.
Click to expand...
It does mean, though, that together you form a more important body of opinion than if you acted alone, thus you can lean more effectively on the others in how they view your actions. :trouble:

Also, I'd like to have an option to invite more like-minded leaders into my wars, not just one. And, probably, pick more than one target – kind of coalition wars. But perhaps, that would be already too complicated to code properly.
 
Leyrann said:
After all, Nazi Germany and Japan should get less warmonger penalty because they declared war on the USA together.

No. That's not how it works. Just because you're doing it together doesn't mean you have a point. It only means you're both a dirty warmonger.
Click to expand...

I' think it did not work like that historically but never mind. You are also not any less warmonger if you denounce and wait the turns. You did not really have any ground to denounce, just wanted to create a casus belli.
What it does mean is that you are not a loose canon that will fire at anyone. You will try to form a primitive sort of coalition. You play the diplomatic game by convincing a civ to join you so you are just a regular warmonger and not a dangerous backstabber.

And from a game perspective it gives you a reason to do it and to play the diplomatic game. A way for classical and medieval wars that are somewhere between the "everything goes" of the ancient era and the more complex casus belli of the Renaissance and forward. Like Rome lots of times went to wars "to help an ally" (they believed they must have a justification for war) - it's that sort of thing. What it actually means though is that Hojo and Harald will look for someone to join them when they want to war you.
 
Victoria said:
It's quite easy for you to joint war, I really have no idea why people surprise war
Click to expand...
Either it's ancient era and I don't mind, It's only me and other civ on the landmass or I have a better CB.
If they have denounced me it would still be beneficial but I might not bother.
Another thing is that if the reason for war is a very tempting unguarded settler I might be too fixed on the target to care.
 
I had an AI Civ as an Ally for around 150 turns then on one turn when it expired instead of renewing it like they had done before, they declared war on me along with another Civ which was friendly at the time also.
Both Civs had more the +10 positive relations per turn with me.
After the wars were done. and they both gave me cities to end the war. they both ask to be me friends again.
 
Victoria said:
It's quite easy for you to joint war, I really have no idea why people surprise war
Click to expand...
Well it isn't easy for me. I need to find an AI that both hates my target and does not dislike me. It happens , but it ain't everytime either. Yet again , I'm not a pro at managing my diplomacy I guess.
 
I'm still not a big fan of this, it seems like the AI is getting around a warmonger penalty, but the human can do it too, so I guess it's not so bad. But I'm most upset at a bug where someone who was allied to me declared a joint war on me with another civ. Although it appears the alliance ended that particular turn, but the civ was still friendly status with me. I couldn't attack him it seemed, but he could attack me. And he attacked me all over the globe despite being allies (I allied with him the turn he did a joint war with me since I didn't have an option to make peace). So my ally was happily going after my units all over the globe.
 
Yeah, the game should not have let you ally, or better - have any diplomacy for the first 10 turns of the war, and not allow alliance without also having peace.
Very strange.
 
in one game both my allies DoW a joint war against me on the turn the alliance ended. As far as i can tell friendly status doesn't mean anything when it comes to joint wars, its seems pretty random. Joint war spam actually feels more like a bug or a design oversight.

Its one of my issues with this game in its current form. Diplomacy being completely useless.
 
No @spfun it is not completely useless, you are just annoyed because you were caught out, because there was no warning your alliance was about to end.

An alliance is quite handy as is a declared friendship. The turn the alliance ended you should have asked for a declared friendship again and then an alliance. If they had said no you at least had that turn to prepare. The failure is on your side for not noticing it had ended.
 
you have to be kidding me, diplomacy is a joke right now. So you think having a game long alliance with 2 nations and suddenly having both DoW because you let it expire for a turn somehow makes any sense?

Having friendships brings almost nothing to the table currently, in Civ 5 you had OP research agreements and could regularly get through games without DoW with smart play. Civ 4 had the best diplomacy, with puppet empires. Civ 6 there's nothing you can do to stop joint war declarations when situations like the above can happen. Its random from game to game. Its why I played Australia quite often. Regular 100% production boost was nice. Its not like the AI can do any damage to you anyway so its just a free bonus through the game.

I'm also friends with the same civs game to game and enemies with the same civs, its horribly designed.
 
I did not say it was brilliant, I just disagree that it is useless.
Your friends are based on how you play the game and hidden agendas. Sure some are easier than others but turn some friends down to gain others, use joint war yourself to gain good dip points and have a cheaper surprise war,
Friends can give you research if they are declared and when declared at least you have 30 turns of peace
 
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