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Justice Antonin Scalia, Known For Biting Dissents, Dies At 79

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Cutlass, Feb 13, 2016.

  1. Cutlass

    Cutlass The Man Who Wasn't There.

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    Updated February 13, 20166:54 PM ET Published February 13, 20165:37 PM ET




    Rest of story can be found here.


    http://www.npr.org/2016/02/13/140647230/justice-antonin-scalia-known-for-biting-dissents-dies-at-79



    __________________________________



    This is a game changer. No matter who wins the coming election, the conservative majority Roberts Courts is over.
     
  2. metalhead

    metalhead Angry Bartender

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    Interesting choice of what he was known for. I would have gone with "hypocritical legal chicanery."
     
  3. Birdjaguar

    Birdjaguar Hanafubuki Retired Moderator Supporter

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    Principled people can still be bad and bad for a nation.
     
  4. Cutlass

    Cutlass The Man Who Wasn't There.

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    Depends who you ask. Love him or hate him, Scalia was a very major figure in the past few decades of the US.
     
  5. Birdjaguar

    Birdjaguar Hanafubuki Retired Moderator Supporter

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    He was, so what? Lots of people with bad ideas are influential for long periods of time. Some of them are even really smart.
     
  6. Cutlass

    Cutlass The Man Who Wasn't There.

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    Sure. And I hate the guy as much as anyone. But I still wouldn't expect a good news source to take a death of a major figure not even cold yet and start singing 'ding dong the witch is dead!'
     
  7. GoodEnoughForMe

    GoodEnoughForMe n.m.s.s.

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    Very few people, however, sat on SCOTUS in their career and say black people are too dumb to go to the University of Texas.
     
  8. Birdjaguar

    Birdjaguar Hanafubuki Retired Moderator Supporter

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    I do agree with you on that though. Good manners would suggest that one wait at least until after the funeral. :)
     
  9. Camikaze

    Camikaze Administrator Administrator

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    That's massively taking out of context what he was saying and why he was saying it, and I fear that most of what he has done of the years is liable to be taken out of context by people without any legal training. There's a tendency for the general population to misunderstand legal judgments, or form their opinions about those legal judgments on the basis of the result. As I understand it, Scalia could be quite inconsistent with the application of his originalist principles. But accusing him of inconsistency is quite different to accusing him of being an idiot or acting without legal reasoning, which appear to be some of the more popular criticisms.
     
  10. Arwon

    Arwon

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    On the other hand his dissent on Obergergefell is pretty wacky
     
  11. Camikaze

    Camikaze Administrator Administrator

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    As was the majority opinion, but in neither case does it make sense to treat the case as a purely political exercise.

    It's like how the High Court ruled a couple of weeks ago ruled in favour of the government's Nauru detention, and some people appeared to bizarrely take this as a sign that they actually approved of the policy. I even saw a criticism of some of the justices for using the word 'aliens', when that's a legal term of art.

    The disconnect seems to be when people treat legal cases like they are the same thing as a political vote, with anything the judges say therefore just being specious reasoning to justify a position already taken for some partisan purpose. This appears to be a particularly problematic perception in the US, and Scalia appears to be a principle victim of it.
     
  12. Archbob

    Archbob Ancient CFC Guardian

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    I find his dying during an election year to be unconstitutional.
     
  13. metalhead

    metalhead Angry Bartender

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    When 4 of the justices said that money collected by the nation's tax collector, based on information people reported in their tax returns, was not a tax I think their partiality rightfully comes into question. I don't necessarily find the conservative justices the only ones given to partisan rulings, but they are by far the more egregious ones.
     
  14. abradley

    abradley Deity

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    When did he say that?

    A link would be appreciated.
     
  15. Camikaze

    Camikaze Administrator Administrator

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    This is precisely the type of attitude I'm talking about, actually. What you're describing is a perfectly legitimate legal argument (albeit perhaps wrong), but because it came in the context of a politicised issue, there's an automatic assumption that it's just voting along party lines; an assumption which conveniently avoids the need to actually engage with the legal reasoning.

    I'm assuming you're referring to the Obamacare case. I'm not really familiar with it, but a brief skim of the dissent shows that those justices are actually engaging in legal reasoning. The idea seems to be that a penalty is not a tax. In Australian constitutional law at least, it is well established that a penalty is a different thing to a tax, and is not authorised by the constitutional taxation power (even if that penalty were to be collected by the tax office on the basis of what is disclosed in a tax return, such as a penalty for providing false information). More broadly, the indicia of a tax are notoriously flexible, such that even though payment might go into the Consolidated Revenue Fund, or even though payment is exacted by a public authority, or even though the payment is for a revenue-raising purpose, it may still not be a tax.

    To selectively take the argument most favourable to the majority, and then use that to ignore the legal reasoning of the minority and say they must just have been biased, misrepresents what is happening from a legal perspective, and is precisely the problem I'm referring to.
     
  16. uppi

    uppi Deity

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    So, does Obama get to replace him? Or will the Senate block any candidate in the hope that they get to confirm a judge next January that is even more conservative than Scalia?
     
  17. Birdjaguar

    Birdjaguar Hanafubuki Retired Moderator Supporter

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    Obama can only nominate. I think he will. Who knows what the senate will do. If they refuse to even consider/vote on his nomination, then I think there will be political fallout.
     
  18. abradley

    abradley Deity

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    The Republican senate will likely block any attempt, but, am hearing, there's a short period at the end of his presidency where he can make an appointment.
     
  19. Cutlass

    Cutlass The Man Who Wasn't There.

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    Obama gets to nominate a replacement. But Republican leaders are already talking about rejecting any Obama nominee.
     
  20. Archbob

    Archbob Ancient CFC Guardian

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    Which will be a moot point when Clinton or Sanders takes over.
     

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