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Justice Antonin Scalia, Known For Biting Dissents, Dies At 79

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Cutlass, Feb 13, 2016.

  1. abradley

    abradley Deity

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    Yawn, http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=14163231&postcount=156

    No, I really don't know what you mean with this continual pestering.

    Get back on topic, and stop pestering me.
     
  2. Timsup2nothin

    Timsup2nothin Deity

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    Does it bother you that so many know exactly what he means?
     
  3. Arwon

    Arwon

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    Thing to remember is some GOP senators are trying to hold their seats against primary voters, others against realistic Democratic challenges. They are not necessarily trying to prevent a halfway progressive-minded appointee as their highest priority.

    You'd assume the senators who were elected in 2010 and are up for reelection in competitive states or notionally-Democrat states have a different political calculus than those in deep-red ones mostly concerned about primaries.
     
  4. Timsup2nothin

    Timsup2nothin Deity

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    Right. This is why it was a mistake for McConnell to openly express this as a Republican work stoppage sight unseen. The move was to let some of those deep red state senators score points by the filibuster while protecting the at risk seats by allowing them to say "Obstruction? Not me."

    Sometimes I'm not sure what I hate more about the current Republican party...their willingness to use duplicitous tactics or the incredible incompetence of their execution.
     
  5. Cutlass

    Cutlass The Man Who Wasn't There.

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    The thing to keep in mind about their 'incredible incompetence' is that they're winning.
     
  6. Timsup2nothin

    Timsup2nothin Deity

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    That remains to be seen. If I were a Republican senator up for re election from New Hampshire or Wisconsin or Ohio I'd certainly be telling Mitch McConnell that he's an idiot.
     
  7. Cutlass

    Cutlass The Man Who Wasn't There.

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    That's a few races. And they are very unlikely to win this presidential election.

    But they will probably win the next one. And they'll hold the House for the foreseeable future, unless something is done to stop gerrymandering. And they hold the majority control in the states. For the foreseeable future, they will get more of what they want than Democrats will.

    So why should they change?
     
  8. Cutlass

    Cutlass The Man Who Wasn't There.

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  9. Antilogic

    Antilogic --

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    This is one of the reasons why I'm convinced the national legislature may be a lost cause until at least January 2023.
     
  10. Timsup2nothin

    Timsup2nothin Deity

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    Gerrymandering has a tipping point. The Republicans have steered their gerrymandering towards holding more seats less securely for a long time. If you have an even split in the electorate that is a successful strategy. But there is no such even split, and the margin is widening. If they don't start scaling back towards less seats held more securely there is a collapse eventually.
     
  11. Light Cleric

    Light Cleric ElCee/LC/El Cid

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    The tunnel vision some people have on the presidency is downright frightening.

    A lot of the problems start at the state level. The Republican Party is dying, but it's going to be a long, long death, much longer than people seem to think because they hold so many levers of power.

    Matthew Yglesias wrote an interesting piece a while back for Vox about how Democrats aren't in the great shape a lot of them seem to think. I see an arrogance and confidence of people who control every legislative branch in the country, but in reality have been blown out of the water at every level of government outside of the presidency. It's a weird disconnect between what I read here and what I see in the numbers. The graphic showing Republican control of the state legislatures is mind-blowing and, frankly, downright depressing, because one party is getting a monopoly while the other is divided between not caring,not having a plan to stop it, and refusing to admit they've made any mistakes.
     
  12. Timsup2nothin

    Timsup2nothin Deity

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    You leave out the cannibal nature of politics. I live in a totally gerrymandered Republican district, in a state that has been shifting towards the democrats for a long time. Despite all reforms my congressman consistently managed to spin chunks of democrat leaning areas off of his district, until it eventually got too small to continue. Then there was a fight, and a big chunk of a neighboring Republican district got torn off for him, because he was a high ranking long term pillar of the congress and the other guy was a chump. Now my guy retired, and mysteriously his district absorbed a bunch of democrat territory and that chunk went back where it came from.

    We might have a democrat at least compete for the first time in fifty years.

    As the margins decline across the board the strong want to suck up extra security more than they want to maintain the number of seats.
     
  13. classical_hero

    classical_hero In whom I trust

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    They are just taking a leaf out of the Democrats playbook.
     
  14. Antilogic

    Antilogic --

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    Dude, you are preaching to the choir.

    In our current situation, the federal-level gridlock means the only real policy that's made occurs at the state level, which as you point out is majority-controlled by the Republicans. What's particularly bad about this is that it has occurred when local media has absolutely collapsed; there are fewer beat reporters now covering state houses and local mayor's offices now than at any point in our history. So even if you agree with the politics of the Republican Party, you probably don't even know what they are doing when they get elected. If the polls showing our awareness of even which party controls the branches of the federal government are bad, the polls asking us who are local elected representatives are that much worse. Meanwhile, you have massive lobbying organizations that literally write the bills for local guys to fill in mad-libs style (like ALEC), which is a perversion of democracy if I ever heard of one.

    If I'm being charitable, I'd say the focus on the presidency is because they are holding onto the one thread they feel they can still win. It's the one thing going for them, might as well cheer it on. But it's no excuse, the Dems need to start getting active on the local level again.
     
  15. Sommerswerd

    Sommerswerd I'll sit with you

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    And if you weren't being charitable... you'd say?...
     
  16. Timsup2nothin

    Timsup2nothin Deity

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    I'm not being charitable. I consider it a last line of defense.

    But, I also have the advantage of living in a state where the Republican gerrymandering has passed the tipping point and collapsed. We still have the districts where they originally penned up all the democrats (with the cooperation of democrat politicians who thus received "representative for life without even having to campaign" status), but the spreading of small margins to gain maximum seats coupled with declining numbers overall now has us locked in as a blue state in every way.

    I know playing the long game doesn't appeal to revolutionaries, but it does work.
     
  17. warpus

    warpus In pork I trust

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    Woohoo! Congratulations America!

    I don't understand why you have "liberal" and "conservative" judges in the first place, that seems problematic to say the least, but good riddance.. right? This guy was a douchebag who held his ideology above the laws of the land.. right?
     
  18. metalhead

    metalhead Angry Bartender

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    Right. The obituaries you read largely paint him in a positive light, but such is their nature. My take is that he was a racist, homophobic, right wing ideologue who invented a legal philosophy that basically said that's what our society ought to be because the people who wrote the constitution were also racist and homophobic. A truly disgusting figure in American history, who legitimized the worst of right-wing garbage for a generation of conservative "thinkers."
     
  19. hobbsyoyo

    hobbsyoyo Deity

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    I'm pretty sure he commented that homosexuality was akin to bestiality, though I'm not sure if he made that argument during legal proceedings.
     
  20. Flying Pig

    Flying Pig Utrinque Paratus Retired Moderator

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    I think you can be decent, intelligent and principled without being right. There are pretty good reasons to support an originalist/textualist reading of any law, but particularly the US Constitution. The big one is that you can't haul people into court for breaking the law if it's not clear what it is: on that front, a clear reading of the original text is better than a complicated, nuanced discussion of the framers' intent. If it takes nine of the country's best legal minds to work out what they meant, how is anybody else supposed to have a chance? Moreover, it's dangerous ground for courts to be setting the law, as they're dramatically less democratic bodies than either the executive or the legislature. The more room is open for interpretation by justices, the worse things get on that front. If you're going to have a written Constitution, it exists to stop governments and future generations from doing things even when they think they have good reasons to do them - on an extreme case, we wouldn't want to risk losing the right of free speech because the President managed to find five justices who would vote that it was meant metaphorically, or only applied in the eighteenth century.

    You might not agree with him - I don't - but don't assume that everyone who disagrees with you is either stupid or evil. I found this obituary particularly touching, and it's written by somebody of pretty unimpeachable brainpower. It also probably does a better job than I did of explaining the logic behind his legal ideas.
     

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