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Justice Antonin Scalia, Known For Biting Dissents, Dies At 79

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Cutlass, Feb 13, 2016.

  1. warpus

    warpus In pork I trust

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    Yeah but this guy seems to be genuinely hateful and at least a tiny bit evil.
     
  2. Timsup2nothin

    Timsup2nothin Deity

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    The problem is that there are plenty of examples where his "this is the original intent" is so heavily bent to support "this is what the conservative movement wants the law to be" that he has no honest claim to this foundation of original intent.
     
  3. Flying Pig

    Flying Pig Utrinque Paratus Retired Moderator

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    I'm not convinced. I think when we accuse people of putting ideology before reason, we forget that so much of the basic facts we're using in our arguments are only obvious if you share our ideologies.
     
  4. warpus

    warpus In pork I trust

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    Yeah plus doesn't performing an analysis of the constitution always mean that you have to keep in mind past rulings on it, and not only the text itself?

    If this guy wasn't doing that, then he obviously wasn't qualified to be a judge in the first place.
     
  5. Timsup2nothin

    Timsup2nothin Deity

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    Maybe. I look at the cases where he disagreed with Roberts. He and Roberts share ideology. When they disagree, Roberts seems to be following reason, and has thus gotten himself excommunicated from the conservative movement, while Scalia has remained their darling.
     
  6. metalhead

    metalhead Angry Bartender

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    As I've pointed out, though, Scalia and his followers on the court were sometimes given to take his "textualism" to an absurd level, such as they did in the dissent on the ACA case dealing with the individual mandate, to the point he ended up arguing against what are long-settled points of law. This not only goes against the principle of stare decisis that he sometimes pulled out when it suited him, it goes against the very principle of certainty that he purported to defend.

    If you're going to argue for such a rigid reading of laws and of interpretation, even when it leads you into the land of the absurd, I don't believe this shows any strength of character or principle. I think it's a hallmark of a weak mind not to be able to mold one's philosophy to the demands of a particular question. It's ideological thinking at its worst, and should not be getting the accolades so many are giving it in the wake of Scalia's death. I don't necessarily think that ideology was meant to comport with either conservative or Republican ideals, but that doesn't make it any better.
     
  7. warpus

    warpus In pork I trust

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    I think that any judge who pledges any sort of allegiance or membership to/in any political party should step down.

    Blows my mind that somebody is able to take on such an important position and then essentially say: "Okay, I'm going to be push forward {group}'s agenda here", what the hell
     
  8. Flying Pig

    Flying Pig Utrinque Paratus Retired Moderator

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    I'd rather they were upfront about it - it's going to happen anyway, because partisan presidents nominate these people.
     
  9. Sommerswerd

    Sommerswerd I'll sit with you

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    Ironically, it is the lifetime appointment that they enjoy, which is supposed to theoretically make them above partisanship... but we are well beyond even the pretense of that at this point... Thus the political bloodsport going on over the current vacancy and why Justice Scalia "died on the shield" in the first place (instead of just retiring).
     
  10. warpus

    warpus In pork I trust

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    It's not going to "happen anyway", I can give you a ton of examples of the system working just fine in many other western countries. Of course I bet these people are nominated differently in other countries, but there you go - there's a way to do it that doesn't lead to idiots like Scalia pushing forward a conservative/Republican agenda or Judge McPaulPants pushing forward an libertarian agenda or whatever.
     
  11. Timsup2nothin

    Timsup2nothin Deity

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    Everybody has an agenda. The measure of a judge is in their ability to put their agenda aside. No matter what the process that puts them on the bench there is no predicting that measure ahead of time.

    I disagree with his decisions sometimes, and his ideology all the time, but I have great respect for Roberts, for example. He does seem to set ideology aside, much to the dismay of his fellow conservatives.
     
  12. classical_hero

    classical_hero In whom I trust

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    First President in US History to Have Voted to Filibuster a Supreme Court Nominee Now Hopes for Clean Process
    The title of the article shows what President Obama did beforehand, now complains if that happens to him.

    http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2016/02/flashback-democrats-passed-resolution-against-election-year-supreme-court-recess-appointments/
    They have history in trying to stopping Republicans, yet now the shoe is on the other foot. All I can say is cry me a river. The Democrats were the ones to politicise the whole thing and complain when Republicans fight back. Boohoo.
     
  13. warpus

    warpus In pork I trust

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    Of course everybody is biased to some degree technically, but in practice a professional judge needs to make judicial rulings as a judge, and not as a conservative or a liberal.

    My boss has a personal agenda. And yet, when he is at work, he sets that aside, and accomplishes his job as a director with only the facts in mind. Surely this is not too much to ask of someone who is making judicial rulings on the country's constitution and legal framework. The only reason these people feel like it's okay to follow their politically-driven agenda is because they are appointed as "a conservative-leaning judge" (or whatever) to begin with. Whoever set up this system like this and thought this was a good idea was an idiot.
     
  14. Sommerswerd

    Sommerswerd I'll sit with you

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    Chief Justice Roberts is quite the renegade in that respect... Maybe its the fact that he is the "Chief" that makes him feel obligated to do his job properly... who knows?
     
  15. Timsup2nothin

    Timsup2nothin Deity

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    Could be. However it happened, I have come to appreciate him...to the point that when he sides with his fellow conservatives I will look much more closely at the possibility the decision is legally correct, even if it is personally distasteful.
     
  16. Dachs

    Dachs Hero of the Soviet Union

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    yes as we all know, history began in 2006 and there were no nomination battles before Alito
     
  17. gay_Aleks

    gay_Aleks communism will win.

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    I thought the world began on 9/11! Bloody liberal media and their lies...
     
  18. Sommerswerd

    Sommerswerd I'll sit with you

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    Yes and as the gospel says "Do unto others as they have done unto you":p
     
  19. Bootstoots

    Bootstoots Deity Retired Moderator

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    How often does he do this? I can only think of the ACA rulings, although there have probably been a few others.
     
  20. Arakhor

    Arakhor Dremora Courtier Super Moderator

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    Politico has this article on some history relating to this issue.
     

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