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Justice Antonin Scalia, Known For Biting Dissents, Dies At 79

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Cutlass, Feb 13, 2016.

  1. Leoreth

    Leoreth Prince of Blood Moderator

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    But you can't do that if your subjective partisan position requires that you claim that legal texts have an objective meaning that you can somehow find out.
     
  2. Bootstoots

    Bootstoots Deity Retired Moderator

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    What we've seen in the last 8 years is the Democrats winning the presidential election and at least making some gains in Congress and state legislatures on presidential election years, but then getting clobbered in midterm elections, which is when most of the Governor's mansions are up for grabs. The 2010 loss was even worse because losing the states meant losing the ability to control district boundaries for the next decade as well. The Dems really need to work on their midterm turnout; a much larger proportion of their voters only votes once every 4 years. Some sort of get out the vote campaign in midterm years might be helpful, although probably only to a point.
     
  3. Antilogic

    Antilogic --

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    By an absolute co-inky dinky, whatever objective meaning those texts have seems to conform to their subjective partisan positions (according to them, of course).
     
  4. Sommerswerd

    Sommerswerd I'll sit with you

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    And that's how you get a reputation as a fair-minded "reaching across the aisle" moderate... See- Joe Lieberman
     
  5. Timsup2nothin

    Timsup2nothin Deity

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    There is no way to make up for the massive media attention drawn by the presidential campaign. The election is nine months away. Campaign coverage is pretty close to 24/7 on the cable news channels. The campaign is at least mentioned on the nightly news just about every night. My gf gets off work early EVERY time there is a debate.
     
  6. metalhead

    metalhead Angry Bartender

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    Whenever I feel warm and fuzzy feelings about Roberts, I remember that his entire career, including getting appointed to the Supreme Court, has been aimed at overturning the Voting Rights Act. Parts of which he was able to actually strike down, apparantly on the sound legal reasoning that racism has disappeared and Congress isn't equipped to conclude otherwise.
     
  7. Birdjaguar

    Birdjaguar Hanafubuki Retired Moderator Supporter

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    Republicans fear a liberal judge will allow an overturn of Citizens United. that is really scary for them.
     
  8. metalhead

    metalhead Angry Bartender

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    It actually shouldn't be. They don't get a money edge most of the time, and being a congressman has become a terrible job that is pretty much non-stop fundraising. I'm surprised they haven't gotten on board with new campaign finance reform that fits in with the Citizens United decision.

    That's going to be the real trick anyways. Even if Citizens United is overturned, McCain-Feingold doesn't get reinstated. They still have to pass a new bill.
     
  9. Bootstoots

    Bootstoots Deity Retired Moderator

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    I thought that laws which were ruled unconstitutional stay on the books, but become unenforceable. Is that wrong, or was it repealed after it was struck down?
     
  10. Birdjaguar

    Birdjaguar Hanafubuki Retired Moderator Supporter

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    Change is certainly needed. even if it only full disclosure on all contributions from every source.
     
  11. MagisterCultuum

    MagisterCultuum Great Sage

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    If I recall Robert's reasoning would not stop Congress from enacting the same measures or even stricter ones to combat racial discrimination in all states, but would stop them from continuing such measures only in a list specific states that were deemed to be racist decades ago and has not been updated. If we held Illinois, New York, and Vermont to the same standards as Mississippi, Alabama, and Texas, then there would be no legal complaint.
     
  12. Bootstoots

    Bootstoots Deity Retired Moderator

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    That's true, but somehow Republican voters turn out for midterm elections anyway, far more so than the Democrats. It seems that differential could be remedied to some extent, with appropriate advertising campaigns on media popular with Democrat-leaning demographics aimed at just getting people to vote combined with a better ground game.
     
  13. Aea

    Aea Prince

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    Young people disproportionately vote democrat. Young people disproportionately are extremely difficult to get into the polls. Hell a lot of Bernie Sanders` supporters are saying they'll vote for Trump over Hillary. Without a messenger and a movement, you've lost that group.

    GOP voters lean older and are more disciplined about voting.

    Not sure there's a solution in sight.
     
  14. onejayhawk

    onejayhawk Afflicted with reason

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    That is easily explained by the leftward movement of the Democratic party. Much is made of the rightward movement of the Republicans during polarization. Do not forget the reciprocal. Since the voters are fairly conservative, as a group, this shift is more to the Democrat's detriment than the Republicans.

    J
     
  15. Aea

    Aea Prince

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    Did what you quote have anything to do with what you wrote?
     
  16. Antilogic

    Antilogic --

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    Ugh, that guy...

    That's another thread.

    I had forgotten about that. Man, he's terrible in a bunch of ways.

    The problem with that is that it is an inaccurate description on Roberts' part on how the preclearance list worked. States (and in some cases, individual counties and cities in New York, Pennsylvania, and Illinois) were removed from the preclearance list if they had a minimum time period (I think 10 years, don't quote me on that particular number) where no preclearance claims were filed against them. Several counties and a few states were taken off the list via this method. All of the other states, particularly Texas, had issues reported within the time period and were thus ineligible to be removed from the preclearance list.

    Strictly speaking, they were held to the same standard, found compliant, and taken off the list. The systematic violators were still on the list for the time being, until the list itself was nuked.

    No, it's not. The "leftward" shift of the Democratic party has been mostly driven by losing blue dog seats in midterm elections. There are only a handful of firebrands with nothing like the influence of the House Tea Party conference or Freedom Caucus or whatever they call themselves nowadays.

    When was the last time the House Progressive Caucus pushed for a government shutdown and succeeded?
     
  17. Dachs

    Dachs Hero of the Soviet Union

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    Progress on civil rights, as slow as it has been, is apparently a left-wing issue.
     
  18. Cutlass

    Cutlass The Man Who Wasn't There.

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    What's the details on that?



    Problem with saying that is that the Democrats are as a whole today to the right of where they were in the 1970s.
     
  19. metalhead

    metalhead Angry Bartender

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    http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/08/john-roberts-voting-rights-act-121222

    That court ruling, which he wrote, is a disgrace. As is typical of the conservatives on this court, there is no legitimate legal reasoning supporting the action the majority called for.

    The issue in the case was that certain states and dozens of counties and municipalities across the country had a pre-clearance requirement under the Voting Rights Act for anything to do with voting - any redistricting or laws affecting voting had to be cleared by the Justice Department before they could go into effect.

    Roberts' reasoning in striking down the pre-clearance requirement was that Congress had merely re-upped the same qualifications for being on the list from 1977. Because the VRA was an intrusion on state sovereignty, Congress was required to impose standards for being on the pre-clearance list that reflected current realities, rather than simply renewing the old standards.

    It's utter crap. Roberts basically subverted the entire lawmaking process by simply assuming that Congress had not taken current reality into account when renewing the old standards. That goes completely against the separation of powers - the Court simply has no right to step in and question whether Congress had adequately considered all factors when enacting legislation. Roberts invented an entirely new basis for invalidating that portion of the VRA, upsetting the longstanding principle underpinning the legislative process that we are to presume that Congress legislates taking all relevant factors into account. If you don't operate under that presumption, you can basically invalidate any statute you want. Just an awful, awful decision - not just because of what it does, but because of how it does it.

    Congress expressed through re-upping the standards that they believed the existing standards were adequate. The Supreme Court has no right under any principle of law to claim that Congress' finding that the old standards were fine wasn't sufficient, unless they can show there is no rational basis for the conclusion Congress reached - which is what Ginsburg pointed out in her dissent. They made no such finding, rather simply said that Congress needed to use updated standards without even really saying why.
     
  20. onejayhawk

    onejayhawk Afflicted with reason

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    When was the last shutdown? It takes two to tango.

    It exactly explains it. Blue dog Democrats were replaced by Republicans, not left wing Democrats. With the center vacated, the right extreme has proven more electable than the left extreme.

    J
     

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