Karma visits Pennsylvania.

Little Raven

On Walkabout
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And as usual, she's cranky.
A soccer mom who gained national attention when she openly carried a loaded gun to her 5-year-old daughter's game was shot dead Wednesday along with her husband in what appeared to be a murder-suicide, police said.

Meleanie Hain and Scott Hain were pronounced dead Wednesday night at their home in Lebanon, about 80 miles west of Philadelphia.

...

Meleanie Hain made headlines after she attended a children's soccer game in a park on Sept. 11, 2008, with a handgun in plain view holstered on her hip, upsetting other parents.

The county sheriff, Michael DeLeo, revoked her gun-carrying permit nine days later.

Hain successfully appealed the permit revocation, although the judge who restored the permit questioned her judgment and said she had "scared the devil" out of other people at the game.
I'll leave it to the statisticians to argue about how guns kill 4.57 children every minute vs how they prevent 7.42 x 10^13 crimes every day. But regardless of where you fall in that debate, I suspect you believe that people who carry guns have a duty to treat them appropriately and handle them responsibly. Meleanie Hain (and presumably, her husband) showed some pretty flawed judgment in that regard, and while that certainly doesn't justify her death, it goes a long way towards explaining it.

A gun is a serious tool. I'm not sure everyone who gets one understands that.
 
Allow me to re-write your post, shorten it, and make it clear to everyone what you're trying to say.

This woman got what she deserved (death) for exercising her federal and state constitutional rights and for not breaking the law. All such individuals who do so ought to hang.

Did I get that right?
 
That is what it sounds like, to me. What else could Raven possibly mean by "Karma"?
 
Did I get that right?
Yes, John, that's clearly what I was saying. ;)

Seriously, are you really going to hold this woman up as a paragon of the 2nd Amendment. A woman who openly carried a loaded weapon to a children's soccer game? This is the kind of person that poses the biggest threat to the 2nd Amendment...because she clearly can't tell the difference between exercising a right and exercising it responsibly.

There are millions of responsible gun owners out there. We have several on this very board. Meleanie Hain pretty clearly wasn't one of them. Her husband doesn't seem to measure up too well either. And when you combine irresponsible people and guns, you get dead people, very quickly.

If I was trying to say anything in my OP, it would be more along the lines of 'Treat your guns responsibly, and make sure everyone else in your life does too.'
 
OP/Thread does not have any point.


Someone with a gun got killed. Big woop.

Wana fight about it?
 
and while that certainly doesn't justify her death, it goes a long way towards explaining it.

What explains it? Karma? That some mystical force beyond the universe sat in motion that her husband would murder her for her arrogance in carrying gun legally to a ball game?
 
Karma is usually something like "The woman shot someone unjustified but got off scott free for some gun law got shot by someone else who was justified under that same gun law."

However it looks like she was open carrying for all the wrong reasons so I guess there could be some karmic elements in there.
 
A woman who openly carried a loaded weapon to a children's soccer game?

What difference does it make where she takes the gun? Would you be more offended in a nursey? A tea room? How about a DVD rental Shop?

She was perfectly allowed to carry the gun. If she has the license etc, I don't see why she should have to take it off for soccer games. We worried she will get too involved and shoot the ref?:lol:
 
BTW. I wonder what the paranormal forces have in store for all the people who legally carried guns at that Obama speech.
 
Yes, John, that's clearly what I was saying. ;)

Seriously, are you really going to hold this woman up as a paragon of the 2nd Amendment. A woman who openly carried a loaded weapon to a children's soccer game? This is the kind of person that poses the biggest threat to the 2nd Amendment...because she clearly can't tell the difference between exercising a right and exercising it responsibly.

No, but she did not break the law. I would certainly have concealed the weapon if I were in a similar situation, but she DID NOT break the law and to say that karma came back to kill her for her 'irresponsibility' is just...well...stupid and wrong.


There are millions of responsible gun owners out there. We have several on this very board. Meleanie Hain pretty clearly wasn't one of them. Her husband doesn't seem to measure up too well either. And when you combine irresponsible people and guns, you get dead people, very quickly.

Open carry ought to be nothing to gawk at. That is what many people are trying to push for, in this country. When you see a person walking down the street with a firearm on their hip, your first reaction ought not to be sheer terror. If we have to trade the terror for ridicule, then so be it.

Now, that being said, I would have carried the weapon concealed at the soccer game. That is not a smart place to be making a political statement. However, that wasn't my choice and I would hesitate to call it irresponsible. Nor would I cheer on the death of two people for it.


If I was trying to say anything in my OP, it would be more along the lines of 'Treat your guns responsibly, and make sure everyone else in your life does too.'

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, as if you care, but you have to really think about how you said it. It sounded, to me, as though you were saying she deserved to die for open carry of her firearm.
 
What difference does it make where she takes the gun? Would you be more offended in a nursey? A tea room? How about a DVD rental Shop?
Because it sends entirely the wrong message for the occasion. Openly carrying a loaded gun is a powerful message, and it's not a nice one. It's certainly NOT the message most children's sporting leagues are trying to foster. Even the judge that restored her license chastised her for her absurd lack of judgment.

Just because something is legal doesn't mean it's right. And trust me, assuming you're interested in preserving the right to bear arms, you really don't want people testing these boundaries on a regular basis. It's always the idiots that screw things up for the responsible folks.
 
BTW. I wonder what the paranormal forces have in store for all the people who legally carried guns at that Obama speech.

Right! To me, that is even worse than carrying at a child's soccer game. Tensions are thick at these events. Unless, the soccer game is somewhere in South America, I think that we're safe there. I am just waiting for one of these rifle-toting idiots to do something stupid. Far cry, though, from carrying a pistol on your hip.
 
Because it sends entirely the wrong message for the occasion. Openly carrying a loaded gun is a powerful message, and it's not a nice one. It's certainly NOT the message most children's sporting leagues are trying to foster. Even the judge that restored her license chastised her for her absurd lack of judgment.

Just because something is legal doesn't mean it's right. And trust me, assuming you're interested in preserving the right to bear arms, you really don't want people testing these boundaries on a regular basis. It's always the idiots that screw things up for the responsible folks.

That being said, I agree with you 100 percent.
 
As for "scaring the kids" I'm pretty sure it was the naive soccer moms and dads who angrily overreacted and made a silly and outrageous display of panic and teeth-gnashing that scared most of the kids.
 
As for "scaring the kids" I'm pretty sure it was the naive soccer moms and dads who angrily overreacted and made a silly and outrageous display of panic and teeth-gnashing that scared most of the kids.

Yeah, god forbid parents want their kids to be safe from the gun toting yahoo trying to make a statement. Of course I know you're just going to respond with some ridiculous fantasy suggestion about everyone should be armed and that way nothing is out of the ordinary when people brandish a firearm in public.
 
Right! To me, that is even worse than carrying at a child's soccer game. Tensions are thick at these events. Unless, the soccer game is somewhere in South America, I think that we're safe there. I am just waiting for one of these rifle-toting idiots to do something stupid. Far cry, though, from carrying a pistol on your hip.
It turns out the guy who was carrying that rifle at the Arizona rifles is part of some super extreme anti-Obama church. Let me see if I can googlemobile something on it...

oh, here we go.
 
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