Keldr's HoF attempts

keldr

Eppur si muove
Joined
Apr 2, 2007
Messages
61
Location
Denmark
Hello all...

For a while I've been meaning to do some write-ups for the games I play for the HoF. I already am a quartermaster, so my focus will be on improving the games I've already submitted, since I believe my skills and understanding of the game mechanics have improved since my first submissions.

At this moment my quartermaster stats are:

Rank: #25
Avg. rank: 3.80
Machavelli: 3.17
Pentathlon: 2.20
Octathlon: 2.83
Histograph: 7.00

The numbers of Machiavelli, Pentathlon and Octathlon of course hides the actual rankings of the individual games. So far I have two #1 slots on the fastest finish tables (Standard emperor conquest & Small chieftain 100k)

My histograph game is also #1 on it's table, but there is only one other entry, and it is only a small monarch game for 8723 pts. So it has less than 10% of the points in Moonsinger's 88k game...

More to come soon...
 
With a ranking of 7.00 a Histograph game is the obvious first choice because of the tremendous improvement potential.

For a long time I had an idea, that monarch was my comfort level. But without realizing it my playing had improved significantly due to more focus on the objectives, and an increased knowledge of the game mechanics. Credits here should go to several of the skilled players at this forum and writers of the War Academy... :goodjob:
At the moment I would say that my comfort level is somewhere between emperor and demi-god.

As a result of this I decided to try for a huge emperor histograph game instead of a monarch game. The opposition might be a bit harder, but the scoring potential is 25% higher (factor 5 instead of 4), and research might be a little faster since the AIs will be of more use in trading techs – especially in the ancient age.

I have a game going, that I believe have the potential of entering the HoF-table. I'll write about the action so far in the next post, and even add some pics if I can figure out how... :lol:
 
Civ: Maya
Opponents: Portugal, Mongols, Russia, Germany, Korea, Byzantines, England, America
Map: Wet, warm, 5 billion years old, 60% water, archipelago
Level: Emperor

After several failed attempts at a I found a decent start with a quite good domination limit of 4413. I was able to set up two 4 turn settler factories right away, and in addition to that I had a nice spot for the pyramids and not too far from the ocean so I could put some curraghs out fast. I also discovered two luxes close by (spices and ivory) plus silks to the far north of my peninsula.

(luxes in red circles)


I’m currently at 610 AD in a game that I have been very close to throwing away several times.
I quickly made contact with the portuguese, and after the republic slingshot I traded them for whatever techs they had, only to find that I had no horses and no iron within my borders. At this point I was very close to throwing the game away, but then I saw a source of horses right beside a portuguese border city, so by settling a city two tiles east of it and rushing some culture I could take over the horses. A bit later I even discovered a source of iron to the far south of the peninsula, which was not yet settled by the portuguese. So now I had both horses and iron and was in great shape to take over Portugal when knights come around :D

(Horses and iron in red circles)


I had a bunch of curraghs out exploring, and found a large continent to the north with no starting AIs. This should play a central role a bit later. On the other side of the portuguese a small hill connected our landmass with another huge landmass which had the mongols close by who had wines and gems. This meant that between the three of us we now had 6 luxes since the portuguese had incense. (Me: ivory, spices, silks; Portugal: incense; Mongols: gems, wines)
My curraghs made contact with the americans east of the continent to the north, they turned out to have both furs and wines.

The connecting land:


Since both America and Mongolia had wines i suddenly realized that this most likely was a huge continent, possibly with all civs. I later found out that this actually was the case, and was quite surprised, since I have never seen that at such a high domination limit!!

When I entered the middle ages I researched chivalry, upgraded a bunch of horsemen and took out the portuguese, getting my fourth lux: incense :)

In a temporary peace deal I was able to take a portuguese colony off the continent, so naturally I thought I had destroyed them when i took Lisbon the next turn. But they turned out to have at least three galleys sailing around, and at least one of them carries a settler. In 610 AD the are stille sailing around trying to find place to land... At least Lisbon had the Great Lighthouse which also should come in handy a bit later.

The research of Invention in 130 AD gave me an SGL, which was instantly used for building Leonardo’s Workshop.

The invention SGL:


After discovering gunpowder I (as usual) see no saltpeter within my borders. Again I almost abandon the game, but decide to keep playing a little in search for some saltpeter. The mongols have a big chunk of land, which could contain some, but they have just built the great wall, so that would significantly slow down the war, dramatically hurting my score. I decide to sign a RoP with the Mongols so I can take out the backwards russians south of Mongolia while searching. The Russians don’t have saltpeter either. Meanwhile I had landed a settler and a horseman on the northern continent next to some iron, not that I needed it, but I had to land somewhere...

Suddenly I see a source of saltpeter under a german settlement to the far north on the otherwise empty continent. I didn’t really want a war with them since they were just north of the mongols, and the largest AI at this point in the game. My exploring horseman a few turns later found that this was not the only source of saltpeter on this lone continent, another one was located further south :)

My smile quickly disappeared when I saw that the continent was surrounded by sea, so I couldn’t connect the saltpeter until astronomy.
Again I almost threw the game away, but then I remembered the Lighthouse of Lisbon giving me the ability to trade across sea, and quickly a galley-fleet was assembled to colonize the saltpeter, and setting up a harbour in time for the discovery of Military Tradition

The game was saved once again...

The saltpeter colony to the north:


The second elite win in Russia gained me my first Leader, and I quickly formed a Knight army, and started the Heroic Epic. Which was finished shortly after the conquest of the russian continental cities. They had a few cities on an island east of thier home-country. I got one of them in a temporary peace deal, but didn’t want to take my army overseas to take a few of their cities, so I left the rest for now. I could have rushed a few galleys in the conquered russian cities, but I could really use the cash for upgrading horsemen and knights just a few turns later. And since all AIs are on the same continent I’d rather focus on taking over the continent as fast as possible rather than being distracted by a few AI colonies.

The former russian landmass (Krasnoyarsk flipped after a peace treaty was signed)


Here's a little overview of the map at 390 AD:
 
This brings the story up to the recent times. I discovered MT in 560 AD, and had almost 100 horsemen ready for cash-upgrading in the city of “031” bordering Mongolia. Research was set to 0%, for upgrading the army for the invasion of Mongolia. Since i had some money saved already, I was able to upgrade 36 cavalry the first turn. I declared on the mongols in 570 AD. I went straight for Karakorum, because I wanted to take the Great Wall as fast as I could, so I wouldn’t have to be bothered with city walls all over. I took Karakorum in 590 AD

610 AD:
I had upgraded the knights in former Russia, except for elites. They now came up from the south taking the western flank of Mongolia. Mongolia by the way had no horses, so I’m only fighting pikes and Medieval Infantry. The elite knights came in very handy for fighting the stray mongolian units blocking the way for my cavalry. A stack of 4 mongolian Mis was conveniently within reach of 4 of my elites. The 2nd elite win gained me my 2nd leader, and I thought for quite a while about weither I should send it back home for rushing the Military Academy or if I should create a cavalry army. I decided for the latter, since I still had the possibility for several elite wins this turn. After creating the army the elites got back to work, and I was very positively surprised by the RNG when I got another leader with my very next elite win !!! This one headed right back to the core for rushing the Military Academy, since I had a feeling that I have had my share of luck for the next few turns :)

Meanwhile I have been getting furs and wines from the Americans for the last 20 turns. Renewing the deal would cost me Metallurgy, but giving a decent gpt income in addition to the luxes. I finally completed my trip around the continent, making trade with the Koreans possible in spite of my war with the mongolians. The Americans, English, Koreans and Byzantines have a tendency to quickly trade around anything they get so I decide I might as well get as much as I can out of Metallurgy. The total income from Metallurgy ends up being: Dyes, furs, wines and 232 gpt and whatever loose change the AIs had lying around :)

This gives me a total of 7 luxes by 610 AD, missing only gems, which is in the northern part of Mongolia, so it shouldn’t take long :)

Gems in Mongolia:


This gives me 86% approval rating with the lux slider at 20%, a 5 turn research on Banking and +245 gpt. Inspite of paying 254 in military support :)


610 AD status:

Score: 2719
% area: 17
% population: 45


The military in 610 AD:

In addition to this I have 13 galleys, 6 ACs and 2 armies
Around 50 slaves and 9 captured cats and trebs

The empire in 610 AD:

Minimap at 610 AD:

The two red dots to the right are representing two portuguese galleys, that I'm following around - I think I saw another one along the english coast, but I didn't have a spare galley to follow it.


The colonies at 610 AD



The northern part of my peninsula at 610 AD



The southern part of my peninsula at 610 AD



Former Portugal at 610 AD



The progress in Mongolia at 610 AD



The rest of the mongol empire at 610 AD



The power graph at 610 AD



Any questions/comments/suggestions are welcome :)
 
Wow, you really need a transcontinental railroad! I hope you are close to the end of the MA, so you can gift up and get Steam. Then of course you will need Coal.....
 
That is definately on top of my wish list ;)

I'm currently researching Banking, and still need Astronomy, Physics, Theory of Gravity and Magnetism before I enter the IA...

I'm not sure however that I want to gift the 4 scientific AI's up to the IA. Russia is contained, so I will probably see if they get steam. If not, I might research it myself since the other 3 scientific AIs will be my next 3 wars, and I really don't want to face rifles when I could face a mix of pikes and muskets instead. I think that is worth postponing steam a few turns for.

I don't think coal will be a problem though, since there was a big chunk of jungle on the northern part of my peninsula, and the rest of mongolia is almost exclusively jungle... Of course that is no guarantee, but there should be a good chance - otherwise I will have to go and take it from someone else...:mischief:
 
Nice game. For some reason, at this level with that much military, I think you can plow through the AIs faster. Oh wait... no artillery. I think you really do want to gift the scientific AIs on up, even if they have rifles. The quicker you get to Replacable Parts, the better. If you get some artillery proper out, rifles become rather easy to kill. And you'll need faster workers and civil engineers as soon as you can get them for dozens upon dozens of places.
 
Banking? You should definitely check the tables for AI favored techs, Banking is an AI fave and can easily be got in trade, unless you are after Smiths. I know its cheaper, but surely you are doing 4-turn research on everything anyway.
 
I like having smiths, maintenance free markets and harbors everywhere plus you can build your banks and stock exchanges and get your wall street free from maintenance as well.

I think with the amount of cavalry you have that artillery would slow your race to the domination limit. It's a hard call, though, the AI might not get nationalism and medicine is important because you want sanitation.
 
Thanks for the comments everybody, they're highly appreciated. :goodjob: It forces me to think about what I do and why - I sometimes forget that I'm playing to maximize my score, and just do whatever I feel like :crazyeye:

@spoonwood
I think you're right about replaceable parts, although I think that most of the AI's will be dealt with at the time I could research it, so I don't think I need it so much for the artillery, but more for the faster workers and civil engineers. So far I haven't even met muskets, so artillery would definately slow down my cavalry, and at this point I think that only america has saltpeter. The germans also have a colony with it but require astronomy before they are able to get it connected. There might not be that many sources left since america has two, and there are two more on the colonial continent to the north.

@ TheOverseer714
I beelined to MT right after Chivalry, and then traded up to education. I'm currently doing 5-turn research on banking, since it gives me the money to upgrade 4 cavalry each turn as well. I don't think the AIs will be of any use any longer, so I will have to research both Banking and Astronomy plus the last three techs by myself.

@Marsden
I will definately build Smith's at some point, to get extra cash for rushing markets, aqueducts and hospitals, but I think it will give me more points if I get rails, replaceable parts and sanitation first, and then research economics afterwards.
It is definately a hard call, and I'm not sure I have decided yet. It will be at least 20 turns before I reach the IA, and by that time I might have better "control" of the 3 last scientific AIs since they will be my next military targets.
 
If you have Cavalry and some armies, too, you shouldn't worry about Riflemen. You will greatly benefit by trying to advance technology, because railroads allow for instant re-enforcement and will end your conquest phase faster, despite Riflemen. Getting to Replaceable Parts will be even better.
 
If you do gift them up, make sure they are broke and have to handbuild or draft Riflemen before you declare and try to make it a quick war so that you don't face too many. If the AI is poorly developed and cash stripped, you will see a regular Rifle on top, then a Musket or Pike, then Spears. No problem for a nice stack of Cavalry, and rails are such a huge advantage that it might be worth it. Try an experiment on a smaller map sometime where you gift up on one save and not on the other, compare how you do with rails earlier. The Maya can rail very fast, so I would do it if I was in your situation.
 
Problem is rifles *effectively* defend at 12 or 13 (depending on how rounding works), while muskets effectively defend at 8 or 9.
 
I agree with the situation described by Overseer. There'll probably a few rifles around while the bulk still remains pikes and muskets. The rifles would be tougher defender, but could easily be taken out by the tougher attackers (armies).

Spoonwood, rifles do defend better of course, but they also are more costly. In comparison to pikes the nominal defensive value of rifles is twice as high, i.e. 6 vs 3, while the cost is more than twice as high. Sometimes the price might be to high for the defender to ever complete.



And Keldr, you might want to consider using the ToE on Replaceable Parts and Sanitation. That way you can gain the most important techs of the IA in the shortest time. You'd have only to aquire four techs - Steam, Medicine, Electricity, and SciMethod - before you could temporarily turn off/down research.


And a general comment. Getting a de facto pangaea map after having selected 'pelago sounds like a milkers dream.
 
I haven't had too much experience with rifles vs. cavalry on monarch, but it makes a lot of sense what has been said. They will not have the time/money to build many rifles anyway, and it will be almost 20 turns from now before the gifting will commence, at which point there should be at least one less scientific AI - At least from a military point of view since I of course won't eliminate them until after i have taken their free tech :lol:

At that point i should have more armies as well (I have 2 now), since The Military Academy is just a few turns away, and i have a fair amount of elites, and the heroic epic.

I haven't really thought about the use of ToE yet, but it would make a lot of sense to use it for replaceable parts and sanitation, and then have a pre-build ready when I discover Scientific Method. Then I would have 70-80% of my income in gold every turn, giving me great opportunities for rushing armies, settlers, markets, aqueducts and hospitals...:cool:

And yes, getting all AIs on one continent in an archipelago world is hard enough. But with a dom limit of 4413, it is way over my expectations.:D
 
Actually I have found that I tend to see pangaea-like maps on high domination limits, more often than not. I think to figure out what sort of maps create the most fake-pangaeas would be very difficult to study.

Fighting Rifles with Cavalry should be no problem but really do try to get more armies as armies will be the best at allowing you to expose the muskets and pikes underneath for large-scale cavalry assaults. Spend a few turns focusing on leader farming; if you have elites and the Heroic Epic, you should be able to get several leaders very soon. It may also help greatly to get the Pentagon once you get a 3rd army in the field (start pre-building for this now); a 4 cavalry army is far more potent than a 3 cavalry one.
 
I suggest cycling through your cities everyturn from here on out and not letting your cities have any unhappy citizens... either happy ones or specialists of some sort. I like the idea of using ToE for Replacable Parts and Sanitation.
 
Spoonwood: I suggest cycling through your cities everyturn from here on out and not letting your cities have any unhappy citizens... either happy ones or specialists of some sort.

I am cycling through my cities (almost) every turn, to prevent unhappiness. I think I read about it in one of Moonsingers +80k games. I remember from the first time I tried it how significantly it increases the points per turn.

Elear: Spend a few turns focusing on leader farming; if you have elites and the Heroic Epic, you should be able to get several leaders very soon.

I am about to attack the germans in just a few turns. They should be good for leader farming, as they are a big empire, but quite backwards in tech - they don't even have gunpowder yet. So I should meet plenty of pikes and spears.
 
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