Khmer First Look

Well, his model is okay. Of course, there are better, like Teddy Roosevelt or Peter the Great, but he is fine. The only thing I don't like on his character model are his earrings.
 
Those elephants look pretty fantasy-like, sadly. I do like Jayavarman's leader screen having the Bayon in the background - and as execrable as the Civ VI leader screens are in general, he's one of the better-characterised leaders.

Given Civ VI's religion mechanics the Khmer bonuses make a lot of sense for the civ and I like the choices of civ ability and uniques alike. My issue remains with the Civ VI religion system as a whole, and even if the new patch cleans up the overlay as promised it seems they're doing nothing about the gameplay. If anything they'll be making it worse by making the appalling religious combat idea a bigger part of the game - yay, now there will be extra religious unit types for players and AI alike to spam. Because what better use of 1UPT restrictions and AI capabilities could there be than to have two entirely different game systems and suites of units both clogging up the board and exploiting AI weaknesses with the same thing - and that's from an advocate of 1UPT for general combat?
 
darko82 said:
But in short, he looks like a happy gay - not like this man from this statue picture. A really mysterious figure, almost like an Egyptian God. He looks like a funny, stupid guy.. caricature etc.

So my question is: do you like such caricatures - with no real personality in Civ games?
Click to expand...

I was used to Civ5's style of leaders (and like them still), but I think the Civ6 ones are a lot more expressive in their movements. The caricature style is a call-back to Civ4's style of leaders. I don't like the lack of speaking, but oh well.
 
Guandao said:
I was used to Civ5's style of leaders (and like them still), but I think the Civ6 ones are a lot more expressive in their movements. The caricature style is a call-back to Civ4's style of leaders.
Click to expand...

Also I'd just like to add an observation to this debate. Many people who dislike the Civ VI leader style refer to them as caricatures. Interestingly they seem to automatically consider this a derogatory term.

Caricature is an art style in its own right, you are of course entitled to have a personal dislike for it, however to assume that it is inherently inferior or superior to another art style is absurd.
 
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So, I've finally had some time to look at the Khmer, and would like to offer my thoughts on their abilities. Note that this is based on what I see in the video, and I am lacking some details. I also don't know how the game will be changed by the patch.

Leader ability - Monasteries of the King
  • Holy Sites get +2 Food +1 Housing when next to river
  • Holy Sites get a culture bomb when built

This one is good. The bonus to food and housing is not a lot, but any boost to those are universally useful.
Culture bombs are always fun, and potentially very useful, as getting tiles can be expensive. I think it is also worth considering that Holy Sites often get built away from the City Center, near terrain which gives adjacency bonuses. You might get some more or less worthless mountain tiles, but depending on terrain, you might also be getting useful tiles which are 2 or 3 tiles away from the city center, early in the game. I can certainly see strategic benefits from this.
Overall, a solid ability.


Civilization ability - Grand Barays
  • Aqueduct gives +3 Faith +1 Amenity
  • Farm next to Aqueduct +2 Food

This one is also nice. +3 is a decent amount of faith, and the extra amenity will help you a bit when trying to grow taller. It's nothing major, but useful enough.
The +2 food for farms adjacent to the Aqueduct is good, but not as massive as it might look at first. Aqueducts must be built adjacent to the City Center, and adjacent to a source of fresh water. If that source of fresh water is a mountain or an oasis (or bizarrely, the Dead Sea), There will be at most 4 tiles which can benefit from this bonus. If it is a river, there are a maximum of 5 tiles which can get the bonus. However, 2 of those tiles will be next to both the City Center and the Aqueduct, and as such, might be better used for districts due to the adjacency bonus. Also, placing farms on both sides of the Aqueduct means they are not adjacent to each other, so you will not get as much out of the later farm adjacency bonus. Still, you will certainly end up with a bit of extra food, realistically +2 to +6 for most cities.


Unique infrastructure - Prasat
  • Replaces Temple
  • 2 relic slots instead of 1
  • Missionaries gain Martyr ability

This one is weak, in my opinion. Relics are powerful, but they are usually not plentiful. I get that you are supposed to use the Martyr ability to get relics, but I am not sure how sound that is as a strategy. For one thing, you are completely dependent on having another civ nearby who is able and willing to engage your missionaries. For another, loosing in theological combat will cause your religion to shrink, and your opponent's religion to grow. I don't like this one.


Unique unit - Domrey
  • 33 Melee strength (vs 23 for the Catapult)
  • 45 Bombard strength (vs 35 for the Catapult)
  • 2 Move
  • 2 Range
  • Unlocks with Military Engineering
  • Can attack after moving

How can I not love a unit which is a frickin' elephant with a frickin' ballista on its' back? This is definitely a powerful unit, 10 higher in both bombard and melee strength compared to the Catapult, and more importantly, able to attack after moving. It unlocks later than the Catapult, at Military Engineering as opposed to Engineering. Interestingly, Military Engineering is boosted by building an Aqueduct, which is something you will certainly be doing early as the Khmer. So that's a bit of synergy there. The production cost is an unknown to me. I also don't know if it is on the Catapult upgrade path.
I think this looks like a useful UU. It will probably be around when it needs to be, which is the time in the game when walls might prove a problem when attacking cities.


Overall, I like this civ. It is aesthetically pleasing, and the abilities look useful and interesting. It is also fairly balanced in my opinion, neither too powerful nor too weak. You could probably go somewhat tall with it in the Medieval era, if you combine it with Monarchy and build some walls.
 
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Considering the Khmer's unique building and the new relics, maybe martyr actually gets changed to also yield a relic when the unit is just expended? Though that would probably give a truckload of relics to Khmer in the first place...
 
KayAU said:
So, I've finally had some time to look at the Khmer, and would like to offer my thoughts on their abilities. Note that this is based on what I see in the video, and I am lacking some details. I also don't know how the game will be changed by the patch.

Leader ability - Monasteries of the King
  • Holy Sites get +2 Food +1 Housing when next to river
  • Holy Sites get a culture bomb when built

This one is good. The bonus to food and housing is not a lot, but any boost to those are universally useful.
Culture bombs are always fun, and potentially very useful, as getting tiles can be expensive. I think it is also worth considering that Holy Sites often get built away from the City Center, near terrain which gives adjacency bonuses. You might get some more or less worthless mountain tiles, but depending on terrain, you might also be getting useful tiles which are 2, 3 or even 4 tiles away from the city center, early in the game. I can certainly see strategic benefits from this.
Overall, a solid ability.


Civilization ability - Grand Barays
  • Aqueduct gives +3 Faith +1 Amenity
  • Farm next to Aqueduct +2 Food

This one is also nice. +3 is a decent amount of faith, and the extra amenity will help you a bit when trying to grow taller. It's nothing major, but useful enough.
The +2 food for farms adjacent to the Aqueduct is good, but not as massive as it might look at first. Aqueducts must be built adjacent to the City Center, and adjacent to a source of fresh water. If that source of fresh water is a mountain or an oasis (or bizarrely, the Dead Sea), There will be at most 4 tiles which can benefit from this bonus. If it is a river, there are a maximum of 5 tiles which can get the bonus. However, 2 of those tiles will be next to both the City Center and the Aqueduct, and as such, might be better used for districts due to the adjacency bonus. Also, placing farms on both sides of the Aqueduct means they are not adjacent to each other, so you will not get as much out of the later farm adjacency bonus. Still, you will certainly end up with a bit of extra food, realistically +2 to +6 for most cities.


Unique infrastructure - Prasat
  • Replaces Temple
  • 2 relic slots instead of 1
  • Missionaries gain Martyr ability

This one is weak, in my opinion. Relics are powerful, but they are usually not plentiful. I get that you are supposed to use the Martyr ability to get relics, but I am not sure how sound that is as a strategy. For one thing, you are completely dependent on having another civ nearby who is able and willing to engage your missionaries. For another, loosing in theological combat will cause your religion to shrink, and your opponent's religion to grow. I don't like this one.


Unique unit - Domrey
  • Replaces Catapult
  • 33 Melee strength (vs 23 for the Catapult)
  • 45 Bombard strength (vs 35 for the Catapult)
  • 2 Move
  • 2 Range
  • Unlocks with Military Engineering
  • Can attack after moving

How can I not love a unit which is a frickin' elephant with a frickin' ballista on its' back? This is definitely a powerful unit, 10 higher in both bombard and melee strength compared to the Catapult, and more importantly, able to attack after moving. The drawback is that it unlocks later than the Catapult, at Military Engineering as opposed to Engineering. Interestingly, Military Engineering is boosted by building an Aqueduct, which is something you will certainly be doing early as the Khmer. So that's a bit of synergy there. The production cost is an unknown to me.
I think this looks like a useful UU. It will probably be around when it needs to be, which is the time in the game when walls might prove a problem when attacking cities.


Overall, I like this civ. It is aesthetically pleasing, and the abilities look useful and interesting. It is also fairly balanced in my opinion, neither too powerful nor too weak. You could probably go somewhat tall with it in the Medieval era, if you combine it with Monarchy and build some walls.
Click to expand...

The Prasat's Martyr missionary ability does seem to be a drawback to the Religious victory when you put it in that way.
 
KayAU said:
So, I've finally had some time to look at the Khmer, and would like to offer my thoughts on their abilities. Note that this is based on what I see in the video, and I am lacking some details. I also don't know how the game will be changed by the patch.

Leader ability - Monasteries of the King
  • Holy Sites get +2 Food +1 Housing when next to river
  • Holy Sites get a culture bomb when built

This one is good. The bonus to food and housing is not a lot, but any boost to those are universally useful.
Culture bombs are always fun, and potentially very useful, as getting tiles can be expensive. I think it is also worth considering that Holy Sites often get built away from the City Center, near terrain which gives adjacency bonuses. You might get some more or less worthless mountain tiles, but depending on terrain, you might also be getting useful tiles which are 2, 3 or even 4 tiles away from the city center, early in the game. I can certainly see strategic benefits from this.
Overall, a solid ability.


Civilization ability - Grand Barays
  • Aqueduct gives +3 Faith +1 Amenity
  • Farm next to Aqueduct +2 Food

This one is also nice. +3 is a decent amount of faith, and the extra amenity will help you a bit when trying to grow taller. It's nothing major, but useful enough.
The +2 food for farms adjacent to the Aqueduct is good, but not as massive as it might look at first. Aqueducts must be built adjacent to the City Center, and adjacent to a source of fresh water. If that source of fresh water is a mountain or an oasis (or bizarrely, the Dead Sea), There will be at most 4 tiles which can benefit from this bonus. If it is a river, there are a maximum of 5 tiles which can get the bonus. However, 2 of those tiles will be next to both the City Center and the Aqueduct, and as such, might be better used for districts due to the adjacency bonus. Also, placing farms on both sides of the Aqueduct means they are not adjacent to each other, so you will not get as much out of the later farm adjacency bonus. Still, you will certainly end up with a bit of extra food, realistically +2 to +6 for most cities.


Unique infrastructure - Prasat
  • Replaces Temple
  • 2 relic slots instead of 1
  • Missionaries gain Martyr ability

This one is weak, in my opinion. Relics are powerful, but they are usually not plentiful. I get that you are supposed to use the Martyr ability to get relics, but I am not sure how sound that is as a strategy. For one thing, you are completely dependent on having another civ nearby who is able and willing to engage your missionaries. For another, loosing in theological combat will cause your religion to shrink, and your opponent's religion to grow. I don't like this one.


Unique unit - Domrey
  • Replaces Catapult
  • 33 Melee strength (vs 23 for the Catapult)
  • 45 Bombard strength (vs 35 for the Catapult)
  • 2 Move
  • 2 Range
  • Unlocks with Military Engineering
  • Can attack after moving

How can I not love a unit which is a frickin' elephant with a frickin' ballista on its' back? This is definitely a powerful unit, 10 higher in both bombard and melee strength compared to the Catapult, and more importantly, able to attack after moving. The drawback is that it unlocks later than the Catapult, at Military Engineering as opposed to Engineering. Interestingly, Military Engineering is boosted by building an Aqueduct, which is something you will certainly be doing early as the Khmer. So that's a bit of synergy there. The production cost is an unknown to me.
I think this looks like a useful UU. It will probably be around when it needs to be, which is the time in the game when walls might prove a problem when attacking cities.


Overall, I like this civ. It is aesthetically pleasing, and the abilities look useful and interesting. It is also fairly balanced in my opinion, neither too powerful nor too weak. You could probably go somewhat tall with it in the Medieval era, if you combine it with Monarchy and build some walls.
Click to expand...

The video said the Domrey was stronger than the catapult, but it never actually said it replaces it. I would contend it doesn't replace anything a la the Samurai.
 
Eagle Pursuit said:
The video said the Domrey was stronger than the catapult, but it never actually said it replaces it. I would contend it doesn't replace anything a la the Samurai.
Click to expand...
Thank you, I have updated the post. That would make it a lot better, especially if you get to upgrade your Catapults to Domreys.
 
KayAU said:
How can I not love a unit which is a frickin' elephant with a frickin' ballista on its' back?
Click to expand...

An archer sliding down its trunk while shooting arrows would be better, but it's top-notch as is.

Any idea what it upgrades to?
 
You also have to take into account Jayavarman VII's age when he started ruling. He was middle-aged when he assumed the Khmer throne. Making him look like a handsome young man in his 20s makes no sense.
 
Katakanja said:
Oh for God's sake Ed, if your going to tease something at least make it something interesting. No one commented on the relics because it has no bearing on gameplay :p

Well done @Leyrann though ;)

EDIT: Also, doesn't that make the districts section in the faith purchasing list a visual bug? :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
If it was that important they wouldn't have kept it hidden...

Also when the missionary generated the relic it still said created by martyred apostle.
 
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