1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Khmer Unique Building - What is the point?

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by Genv [FP], Apr 24, 2008.

  1. Genv [FP]

    Genv [FP] Website Moron

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2008
    Messages:
    1,104
    What's the point of the Khmer Unique building? All it does is that it replaces the aqueduct and only gives a staggering +1 :food:.

    Am I missing something, Or is the +1 :food: worth something :crazyeye:
     
  2. Commodore Nate

    Commodore Nate Warlord

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2008
    Messages:
    204
    Well, that +1 could allow you to have every tile occupied (or run a specialist).
    As long as you have a surplus of at least 3 (so if you have a spare grassland farm), you can turn that into a specialist while keeping the point for growth.
     
  3. Refar

    Refar Deity

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2005
    Messages:
    4,608
    It's worth half a scientist = 3 :science:, or another half-specilist, or half of a worked -:food: tile, or the city growing faster. I don't think it's bad for a building you will need anyway in almost every city.
     
  4. DigitalBoy

    DigitalBoy Emperor

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2006
    Messages:
    1,346
    I think it's a pretty weak UB, especially for an expansive leader who isn't going to need the aquaduct's +2:health: so much.
     
  5. Lance of Llanwy

    Lance of Llanwy King

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2006
    Messages:
    710
    You will in the Industrial age. IMO, it helps him leverage his trait by allowing his cities to grow faster in the first place...
     
  6. Swiss Pauli

    Swiss Pauli Emperor

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2006
    Messages:
    1,805
    It's pretty good: extra food means more rapid growth so you can use the extra health. Other things that give extra food are CS (irrigation), Biology and Malls, and the Baray is available much earlier than those.
     
  7. Honkoid

    Honkoid Honk of the hill

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2001
    Messages:
    187
    Location:
    Germany
    I think it's a quite strong UB. Especially cities in food poor regions profit from this. Imagine an all grassland city with only cottages. That's a whopping +50% growth. Build tundra cities, that no one else can work effectively. Squeeze in that extra plains cottage everywhere. And it comes very early without ever loosing its effectiveness.
     
  8. Qoo

    Qoo Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2007
    Messages:
    14
    I think It's quite strong ub , but its cost is very expensive if compare another building when it available.
    However It's ideal building for specialist economy :)
     
  9. Peter Harris

    Peter Harris Warlord

    Joined:
    May 11, 2003
    Messages:
    101
    Location:
    Australia
    I think it is a good building. Not not the best UBfor me but a good one.

    Very good UB for the AI. It can be build in any city with benefit AND without actual harm. :D
     
  10. Iranon

    Iranon Deity Whipping Boy

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2007
    Messages:
    3,214
    Location:
    Germany
    It's not at all bad in raw efficiency... whether you use it for better whipping, running specialists or working food-poor tiles, you will get a decent return compared to percentage-bonus UBs for a long time.
    Moreover, a food bonus is the most flexible kind. All in all, I consider it to be one of the stronger unique buildings in the game.
     
  11. Wodan

    Wodan Deity

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2005
    Messages:
    4,867
    Location:
    In transit
    rufkm? The biggest limiting factor on the game, by far, is food. The amount of food each city has limits its growth, commerce, specialists, and production. How did the designers put "bounds" on the game? They limited food.

    If I had to choose one single benefit, it would be free food. Food can be transformed anyhow I choose, depending on my strategy. Conversely, if I was forced to get free X (where X is one of the "outputs" listed above such as commerce or specialists), then that would really only be a benefit to strategies that had synchronicity with that output. e.g., the free commerce would really only rock if I was running a CE and had buildings that multiplied commerce.

    Free food helps my production cities by letting me work more mine and workshops. Free food helps my specialist cities and GP farm by giving me a free half specialist. Free food helps my commerce cities by letting me work a plains cottage or by letting me run a free half merchant. Free food lets me whip faster. Free food makes my cities larger which means I have bigger trade routes, higher pop (which influences the power graph as well as score, both of which help diplomacy vs the AI).

    Free food is :king:

    Wodan
     
  12. MqsTout

    MqsTout Warlord

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2002
    Messages:
    211
    Location:
    Pittsburgh
    The perfect complement to this thread is to discuss Sid's Sushi!
     
  13. jeffreyac

    jeffreyac Mostly Harmless

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2006
    Messages:
    626
    Location:
    New Jersey, USA
    Eh, for me, I figure since I'm most likely going to be building them in every city anyway, it's nice to get a ittle boost everywhere (as opposed to, say, UB's which I may not normally build... though, to be honest, nothing is coming to mind... :) maybe I'll go have another cup of coffee...)
     
  14. DigitalBoy

    DigitalBoy Emperor

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2006
    Messages:
    1,346
    This is the only real use I see for the baray, making otherwise food-poor city sites a little more favorable.

    The biggest limiting factor to city growth in my games is happiness (at least when the aquaduct becomes available). Building a baray in the classical era only to reach my happy cap that much faster is a waste of hammers. It starts to become more useful in the medieval era, when the +2:health: becomes a bit more important, but the Khmer are still expansive and don't need the aquaduct as much. I don't really seeing the baray being super useful until the renaissance-industrial era.
     
  15. Wodan

    Wodan Deity

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2005
    Messages:
    4,867
    Location:
    In transit
    Ever use HR, DigitalBoy? That's one of the best & easiest ways to combat happiness during the timeframe you're talking about.

    Wodan
     
  16. kamigawan

    kamigawan Warlord

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2005
    Messages:
    107
    Although the +1 food looks great in principle, I tried playing Khmer several times and found that the baray is too expensive to build during the time when the bonus would be most useful (early on in cities size 12 or less). The amount of hammer investment required to build this thing delays production of other important buildings or military for a relatively small bonus. However, the caveat I should mention is that I play on prince where the unhealthiness penalty does not require early aqueducts - on higher difficulties, you may need aqueducts anyways.

    I agree that food production is indeed the most important factor for city development, but I would prefer to do this by selecting more food-rich sites and developing tiles with irrigation.

    Just my 0.02
     
  17. Honkoid

    Honkoid Honk of the hill

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2001
    Messages:
    187
    Location:
    Germany
    I surely won't abandon high food sites just because I have the Baray. And I admit, the more food you have available, the less interesting the Baray becomes. But it's far from useless.
     
  18. Kesshi

    Kesshi Emperor

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2007
    Messages:
    1,415
    DigitalBoy,

    You said The biggest limiting factor to city growth in my games is happiness. This is not true at all. The growth of your city is directly related to the amount of incoming food. Your maximum city size is related to health happiness and food, but usually limited by happiness not food. Where as growth is always related to your total amount of food coming in.

    As someone who plays SEs a lot, I'm going to have to go with Wodan here and second the "food is :king:" line.

    Food = growth.
    Food = slavery fun!
    Food = specialists.
     
  19. Iranon

    Iranon Deity Whipping Boy

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2007
    Messages:
    3,214
    Location:
    Germany
    Tbh, I agree with those who claim the building is awkward. While the bonus itself is more than decent, being on a health-raising building that doesn't do anything else when your only leader is expansive is unfortunate.
     
  20. Polobo

    Polobo Emperor

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2007
    Messages:
    1,537
    Keep in mind, if you have resources such as cows/deer that provide their multiplier health late-game, the extra two health can free up those resources for trade, getting you extra happy or gpt (convertible to happy via HR) to raise your happy cap and, with the food, grow more quickly into that larger city size.
     

Share This Page