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Kiang's Fire Emblem Civs

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Creation & Customization' started by Kiang, Jun 30, 2014.

  1. Kiang

    Kiang Eternally Tired

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Hello, all you wonderful civ-players! I've decided to start a page for all of my Fire Emblem mods. So far, here's what what we've got:


    Crimea
    Spoiler :
    Kingdom of Crimea


    Leader: Elincia


    Trait: Children of Wisdom
    + 2 :c5science: science from every farm and + 1 :c5food: food from every scientist.



    Unique Unit: Greil Mercenary
    Requires no iron, unlocks at currency, and gains experience 75% faster. Replaces Swordsman. Also never obsoletes, because the Ike worship is eternal.



    Unique Unit: Royal Knight
    Receives a +25% :c5strength: combat strength bonus when fighting in Crimean territory. It may also receive defensive bonuses, unlike the Knight it replaces.​


    Direct Download: https://www.dropbox.com/s/wor49prhno78dls/Kingdom of Crimea (v 4).civ5mod

    Daein
    Spoiler :
    Kingdom of Daein


    Leader: Micaiah


    Trait: Radiance
    All defensive buildings yield +2 :c5culture: culture. Great People heal units in the same tile, taking twice the damage healed 9thanks to ViceVirtuoso for the lua for this one! =)



    Unique Unit: Dawn Brigade
    Ignores terrain penalties. Replaces Pikeman and upgrades to Musketman.



    Unique Building: Keep
    Replaces the Monument. Yields +3 :c5culture: and provides small defensive bonuses.​


    Direct Download: https://www.dropbox.com/s/uk00l8f6hf4o54r/Kingdom of Daein (v 3).civ5mod

    Begnion
    Spoiler :
    Empire of Begnion


    Leader: Sephiran


    Trait: Divine Mandate
    Recieve :c5faith: faith from kills equal to the combat strength of the unit killed.



    Unique Unit: Holy Guard
    May traverse any terrian at the cost of only 1 movement point. May only be purchased with :c5faith: faith. Replaces the Knight.



    Unique Improvement: Senatorial Palace
    Must be placed on a luxury resource and can only be built by a Great Prophet. Yields +8 :c5faith: faith and +2 :c5culture: culture, but does not provide a copy of the luxury resource it is placed on, because the greedy Senators hog it all for themselves.​

    Direct Download:
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/fvtstprzet6uahy/Empire of Begnion (v 3).civ5mod


    Comments/questions/legitimate suggestions/other feedback/compliments/civ requests are all totally welcome! Just be nice. =)

    Disclaimer:
    Spoiler :
    Fire Emblem and all of its associated characters and nations are licensed trademarks of Nintendo and Intelligent Systems. Making a profit off of any of my mods is strictly forbidden. I do not claim any degree of ownership over the series, nor any of its constituent parts. All I've done is taken some of the art used in the games to create a Fire-Emblem-themed mod for players of Civilization V to enjoy. =)
     
  2. aanontue

    aanontue Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2014
    Messages:
    1
    Cool cool stuff. The Tellius games were always my favorites in the series. I have a feeling the laguz nations would be more trouble to implement then they are worth though. As for your current mods, I definitely agree with what someone else said about having Crimea's UA be diplomacy based. They were all about getting along and building bridges and whatnot. Regardless, keep up the good work!
     
  3. KIdanor

    KIdanor Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2014
    Messages:
    18
    Well look what we have here. A lonely thread. Looks like it needs friends.:)

    Seriously though, I have finished my first game with Begnion and would like to give some feedback about it.

    UA: I love it. It lets me totally dominate the early religion race while still requiring active effort on my part. I also like how this UA rewards me for going to war while also being totally useable with just barb hunting. It is not nearly as restrictive as most base game’s warmongering civs.

    When compared to Aztec’s UA, it may be little bit too much to give defeated units' whole strength as faith, since faith is generally more valuable than culture. On the other hand, the two other uniques require faith to work so this probably balances it out. I really can’t say right now should the amount of kill-reward faith be changed. Maybe after some more games.

    UI: I like this also, since it gives the player a real choice. Because extra luxuries are basically money, this improvement lets the player to choose between extra money (lux) and faith (Holy Site) or even more faith and culture (Palace). I think that both options can be valid depending on the situation and gives the player real options what to do with their Prophets.

    Right now the Senatorial Palace seems to receive the extra culture from Piety finisher but not the extra gold from Theocracy-policy. Is this intentional?

    UU: I can appreciate the design behind this unit and how it fits to the Fire Emblem lore. It, however, seems to have some issues:

    1) Right now I am able to upgrade Horsemen into Holy Guards (for 10 gold). Is this intentional?

    2) I am not able to buy them without “Holy Warriors”-belief. Is this intentional?

    3) They seem to be too strong with “Hovering Unit” and “All tiles cost 1 movement”-promotions. These promotions let them to totally dominate the battlefield with hit-and-run-tactics and basically nothing can kill them. I was able to whittle down armies much larger than mine without any casualties simply thanks to their improved mobility. These units also ignore enemies’ zone of control.

    The real problem, however, is that these promotions transfer when the Guards are upgraded. This lets the player to continue to dominate the battlefield for the whole game with units that are basically Helicopters without low firepower or requiring one of the game’s most precious resources (Aluminum).

    I think that there is two ways to fix this unit:

    1) “Hovering Unit” and “All tiles cost 1 movement”-promotions should not transfer when upgraded. This would give Begnion a window of opportunity to dominate the battlefield with the Holy Guards without them being overpowered for the rest of the game. (I prefer this option)

    2) Give the Holy Guards a negative modifier when being attacked. I think that this should be some kind of moderate penalty against all attacks, not a big one against archers. While this would fit the lore better, archer are so prevalent and powerful in Civ 5 that any unit that has big weakness against them runs a risk of being totally useless.

    Conclusion: I like the design philosophy behind this civ and all its parts seem to work well together. UA is awesome and UI offers real choice and flexibility. UU needs to be tweaked, though.

    All in all, great work.:goodjob: Thank you for all your civs and keep it up.
     
  4. Kiang

    Kiang Eternally Tired

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    Thanks! I really appreciate the feedback, and on this thread specifically. i want to be able to have good discussions here! =)


    Hurray! I think simpler UA's are often the better ones.

    Indeed. Hence the need for playtesting (read: I agree).

    Omigosh, totally no. I coded for the piety finisher, but I guess the Theocracy one totally slipped my mind. It's supposed to benefit from everything the Holy Site would (hence, I also coded in compatibility for Freedom's New Deal policy).

    That's another bug. I know how to fix it, though, so I think we're all good.

    Indeed, but the promotions are supposed to go away after upgrading.

    ...welp. Had no idea.

    Looks like I have some coding to do. I'll use your solution #1, which is what was originally intended.

    Thanks! I'm flattered. Also, superthanks for testing my civ. I haven't had the time to actually play a full game with any of them yet, but hopefully that will be remedied once I finish my current projects. If you don't have anything better to do, I'd also appreciate some feedback on Daein and Crimea, but no worries if you can't. I'm only asking because you give such detailed and honest criticism. ^_^
     
  5. Kiang

    Kiang Eternally Tired

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    So I just realized that, although I'm only posting new, finished Civilizations here, I put this thread under "Creation and Customization" instead of
    New Civilizations." If someone familiar with the intricacies of forum etiquette could tell me whether I should just make a new thread or request a for a Moderator to move this one, I would be totally grateful. Thanks, and sorry about that!
     
  6. KIdanor

    KIdanor Chieftain

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    Well it took longer than expected, but here it is, my review of Daein.

    Dawn Brigade: I really like this unit. Ignoring terrain costs is a very convenient ability on slow foot soldiers and helps greatly with unit positioning. Also, since this unit upgrades to musketman, it also fixes one of the biggest flaws of the ordinary pikeman by keeping its unit type and role same for the whole duration of its upgrade line.

    While I may have criticized pretty heavily the extra mobility of Holy Guards, I feel that ignoring terrain costs is balanced on unit whose whole upgrade line has only 2 movement points (expect for the Mechanized Infantry, who has 3). Also this unit loses combat bonus against mounted units, which (intentional or not) I feel that helps to keep this unit in check.

    I see no need to change anything with this unit.

    Keep: I think this is one of the most balanced UBs in the whole game. The extra culture point from this building helps to fill your first policy tree faster or at least in comparable speed to Poland but loses in the long run. Aztecs also may be faster to fill their first policy tree with their UA, but they also have to invest more and make active effort to benefit from it. Keep being maintenance free also allows player to build it instead of waiting for Legalism without somewhat gimping their early economy.

    For these reasons I think that Keep is perfectly balanced: it doesn’t distract player from his other goals, gives help at the most important part of the game but other players are able to outproduce it with active effort or in time.

    Sacrifice: The great prophet part of this UA has, frankly, little effect on overall game. I personally have had only one chance to use it when I managed to save one of my units in a defensive war. Players generally just don’t have great prophets at hand when they would need this ability. That said, it is a nice touch and doesn’t hurt balance, so no complaints here.

    +2 culture from defensive buildings, on the other hand, is a mixed bag. It helps in the early game since walls are feasible to build in pretty much any city you can expect to be attacked. Also, player can receive free walls in their capital from Legalism if they build Keep first. These factors can greatly help with early game defense while also benefiting the overall economy.

    This ability, however, does not scale well to later game. I can see few ways to fix this.

    1: Give later defensive buildings more bonus culture. It could work like this:
    Walls give +2 culture, castles +3, arsenal +3 and military base +4.

    This would make this ability to scale better for later game without unbalancing the early game.

    2: Give military training buildings extra culture as well. For example:
    Defensive buildings still give +2 culture and Barracks give +1, Armory +2 and Military Academy +3.


    There is also third option.

    3: Bring back the culture from specialists.

    In your Hogwarts Wonder mod, you have managed to get “extra culture from specialists”-mechanic to work. Could this also be mimicked to base game’s specialists or does your solution work only with custom specialists?

    If doable, I think that extra culture from specialists would be the best solution. It would require more active effort from player and would scale on its own to the later game.

    Conclusion: This civ is very well balanced. UU’s extra mobility and upgrade line are very convenient without being overpowered. UB has just right amount passive benefits at the right time to help player to establish good starting position for the later game. UA could scale a little better for later game, however.

    Also, regarding some people’s concerns about lack of designated victory condition. Right now this civ has enough general bonuses to pursue any victory condition. Bringing any kind of special focus would mean at this point that some of these general bonuses would have to changed and retested. I fear that this would be much harder than simply designing a specialist civ from scratch. Also, this would be unnecessary: generalist civs are just as playable as specialists, as long as they get enough tools to work with. Just look at Poland or Ethiopia: no special focus, but they are still some of the strongest civs around.

    All in all, great work Kiang!:) I will try to come up with something about Crimea soon.
     
  7. Kiang

    Kiang Eternally Tired

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    Again, thanks for the excellent review! For Plegia's makeover, I'm thinking of option #1 for the UA. Although the extra-culture specialists would be optimal, this only works with new specialists. To put it simply, when a specialist is crated, its culture is set then, and cannot change. I have no idea why this is; it seems like a pretty serious flaw.

    As for the Keep and Dawn Brigade, I'm glad that you agree they're well-balanced. Really, thank you! As rushed as the Keep was, its in-game mechanic is pretty good, so I'm definitely keeping it now. The problem is that I had a lot of complaints about it not being Fe-historically accurate, but I'm fixing that by just releasing a militaristic, Ashnard-Daein as opposed to messing with my current one to try and have it represent all of Daein's history.

    Once more, thanks so much for the review! I find your comments both insightful and helpful. =)
     
  8. codefreak5

    codefreak5 Procrastinator

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    You've been working on my civ a bit too much, haven't you?

    I'm just kidding. I'm actually here to ask if I can help when I'm not busy with my mod or real-life obligations. Having never played the Tellius games, I can't provide any advice on flavor, beyond what the FE wiki tells me, but I can do things like coding and testing. Let me know if you want me to help!
     
  9. Kiang

    Kiang Eternally Tired

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    And here we learn the lessons of writing one post immediately after another... I can't believe I did this. xD It just totally slipped past my proof-reading.

    Wow, thank you! =) Actually, I was most looking forward to getting started on Awakening; maybe we could collaborate on Regna Ferox? Depending on what people want, I was going to go to either the Laguz civs or Awakening after this.
     
  10. KIdanor

    KIdanor Chieftain

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    I promised it and here it is, my views on Crimea. I also just noticed: apparently I covered these civs in backwards order.:crazyeye:

    Royal Knight: This unit goes to the ”solid, but not exceptional”-category. Situational combat bonus on player’s own lands is not only when defending but also fighting enemy units after successful city capture. Receiving terrain defensive bonuses also lets player not only to hold their line better but also to be more aggressive with this unit since counter-attacks won’t hurt as bad.

    Like I said, this unit isn’t anything special, but gets the job done reliably.

    Greil Mercenary: Notable thing about this unit is it’s placement on the tech tree. Normally Swordsmen aren’t really used since they are not placed on the preferred Civil Service-Education tech path. By placing this unit on Currency, you have actually made it relevant for most players.

    Best thing about this unit, however, is its unique role as a cheap unit for emergencies or quick wars. If this unit had to build, it would be competing with Pikeman for the role of primary front line soldier and (with its lower strength) would always lose. But since it’s buyable for cheap, it is basically Crimea-only Landsknecht that doesn’t require policies. Thanks to this easy accessibility, it can be used to fill possible holes in player’s army in a hurry. Also because it can leveled up so easily, player has more incentive to research Steel, upgrade his Mercenaries and keep using them.

    I didn’t try it out yet, but I can see a strategy where player would research Currency as fast as possible and use this unit to quickly rush his neighbor. That could prove to be interesting.

    Children of Wisdom: I have seen some people to criticize this trait and I unfortunately have to agree with them. This ability really unbalances the game, mainly because of how early and easily player has access to extra science by building farms.

    Right now Crimea plays pretty much like a supercharged hybrid of Korea and Babylon. Just like Babylon has access to fast and easy science in the beginning of the game by discovering Writing and planting their scientist, Crimea gets (even more) free science just by doing what players would normally do, building farms. And just like Korea, whose “science from specialists” scales to later game, Crimea’s science output also grows naturally as the game goes on, only this growth starts much sooner and is much quicker.

    This has dramatic effects to the game. In the early game, I easily doubled my normal science output. Even in later game, this ability multiplied my science roughly by 1,5. Because of this, I quickly took the tech lead and eventually had more than ten techs over the average amount, and fifteen more than the last AI. This in extension meant that my army was always more advanced than my opponents’, which made wars pretty unfair. I also had access to more advanced buildings which made also my economy stronger than my opponents. This, of course, included science buildings, which meant that my advantage just grew larger.

    My fast tech progression also introduced problems for me. Since I was getting new buildings much faster than normal, my production couldn’t follow and I didn’t have time to build even half of the buildings or units I had access to. This made the game feel hectic and uncontrollable. This in turn made me frustrated and the game unfunny to play.

    While I may have made this ability sound terrible for game balance, it is not fundamentally broken. It is thankfully pretty easy to fix.

    1: Tie the science bonus to Education-tech or university and reduce it to 1.
    The biggest problem with this ability right now is that it starts to snowball too early and too fast. Since any bonuses have biggest impact in the early game, the easiest way to lessen the impact of this ability is to postpone its activation. Discovery of Education seems like logical timing for this ability to activate: theme wise it makes sense and bonuses of this magnitude can still make noticeable impact to the game at this point.

    It doesn’t really matter whether the bonus science is granted by simply discovering Education or by building universities. Whichever is easier to code could be used.

    I also strongly recommend you to reduce the bonus science to 1 beaker per turn. While 2 beakers is fine for specialists who have to be supported by other citizens in the city, we have to remember that farms are self sufficient. There is also no clear limit how many farms city can work, but city can run only limited amount of specialists without sacrificing growth. Therefore working farms is not nearly as limiting as running specialists and any bonuses for farms can run out of control much easier.

    I think the extra food from scientists could be retained in this ability. It isn’t really game breaking and is pretty unique bonus.


    If you want to take this ability in new direction, I could have an idea:

    2: Science buildings are built in half the usual time.

    This bonus could be helpful at any point of the game, since science buildings are pretty much always pretty high on players’ priority list. It would also scale on its own to all stages of the game. And the scientists’ food bonus could be combined to this ability as well.

    I wasn’t sure whether I should include this idea to this post: I think all change suggestions should follow author's original idea as closely as possible. In the end I decided it would not hurt to include it, maybe it at least gives you some new ideas.

    Conclusion: Both UUs are solid and Greil Mercenaries give some interesting possibilities. UA needs some scaling down, however.

    Well, that takes care of the beorc civs. Again, thanks for making them and good luck on your future projects.:)
     
  11. Kiang

    Kiang Eternally Tired

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    Hooray, more feedback! Thanks a lot for typing all of this up. Anyway:

    Royal Knight: I agree that I could've made these guys a little more interesting, but the Royal Knight was the first Unit I ever coded. xD I sort of want to just leave it the same; I think that havig everything in a mod be super complicated and lua-ed is un-Firaxis and I little bit of overkill. That said, if I can think of something really cool for the update, I just may add it. I'm still quite limited, though, without lua.

    Greil Mercanary: I'm glad that you approve of this strange unit. It's definitely the strangest unit I've ever coded, in that it's worlds different from what it replaces. I think it's interesting, though, and I wanted the Greil Mercanaries to be Crimean units to appeal to the general public.

    Children of Wisdom: Yeah, I know that it's basically broken. I just haven't really had too much time to go back and fix it. Again, it was my very first trait. I like both of your solutions, and the best part, by far, of your reviews is that you not only find problems, but offer ways to fix them. So, thanks for that. =) I was actually considering a free tech per era, in a similar vein to Poland's Solidarity, but if that doesn't work, I'll totally try out your suggestions here.

    Again, thanks for such awesome feedback!
     
  12. PMF

    PMF Chieftain

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    So, these are all fantastic mods! Though Crimea scares me a little. But I'm sure you'll get that all sorted out soon enough!

    But I saw there were people (on steam) having problems seeing the mods show up, so I looked into Crimea to start with, and I saw that you added some blank/default value tags, hahaha. In G&K, the mod's trait specifically has weird problems of not showing, and I saw that you had a lotta blank tags in the trait page; I think removing those might solve that issue since they use tags added in BNW! Stuff set to 0 too, since that's usually the default value anyway. XML errors cause the whole file not to read into the game, which makes weird stuff happen!

    Anyway, as for stuff not showing at all in vanilla, I'm guessing it must be (at the very least) errors in the main civ file. I guess it's up to you if you wanna separate the expansion-related stuff into other xml files (like lumping it into G&K stuff or BNW stuff), but I'm assuming that at least Crimea could work on all versions. Still, I'm thinking they should all work with G&K!
     
  13. Kiang

    Kiang Eternally Tired

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    Haha, yeah, we're working on it. It was my first one, after all. I've just been a little Skyrim-addicted lately. Sorry about that. xP

    Anyway, I appreciate your help. I'm pretty sure I know what the problem is, though - I've been using (because they're insanely helpful and easy to use; that's also why there are all those blank tags) whoward69's base xml templates to create my mods (he complied them for that very purpose), and there are different versions of the files for Vanilla, G&K, and BNW. If I wanted to convert my mods into said versions, I'd just have to download the other files and transfer all of my important code into them. I'd be a little tedious, and I'm a staunch believer in "just drop the $15 (or less, during a sale or something) on BNW, it's worth it," but I guess this is what people really want. ^^; So, I'll probably end up releasing a G&K modpack alongside my BNW one. =D I'm not going to attempt a Vanilla Begnion. I'd have to change everything, since they rely so heavily on faith.

    Thanks for your thoughts! =D
     
  14. codefreak5

    codefreak5 Procrastinator

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    Late replies, yay!

    Of course we can collaborate on Regna Ferox! But that's a discussion for another thread.

    I say you go ahead with your Tellius civs if the people want to see more, and pass me any spare work that needs doing if it needs done. In the meantime, you can give ideas for Ferox, and I'll do what you can and also give you some things to do if you have time.
     
  15. Kiang

    Kiang Eternally Tired

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    I always have time for art, and as long as I'm making BNW content, I'm pretty self-sufficient. The one big issue for me is Lua. I have a number of Lua scripts I'd like to get done, but even after spending a bunch of afternoons trying to learn, all of my attempts at a successful Lua file have, unfortunately, come to dead ends. :blush:

    I understand that Lua is a bunch of work, but what I need most right now (for yet another FE mod) is something that allows for a combat unit stationed in a city to gain experience each turn, but only if a certain building is in said city. I borrowed and modified some code from JFD, but I must've screwed something up, because FireTuner gave me an error message I didn't know how to resolve. I'll give you what I've got if/when you have to time and if/when you want to try it out, but I know you're super busy, so it's okay.

    Anyway, rant over. Sorry about that. My big idea for Ferox was to have a trait that referenced it having two competing khans. In the same vein as the Maya's trait, every 50 or so turns, you could choose between two different small bonuses or whatever. It would take a lot of Lua-ing, but I've seen some pretty decent UI tutorials out there.

    I'm pretty sure we're all agreed on having the Arena as a UB, so there's that. Still not too sure about the UU, but perhaps we could make it a Berserker or Warrior or something. Eh.
     
  16. PMF

    PMF Chieftain

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    If you don't mind me asking, what's the error? I did something similar to that for another mod's trait!

    As for the UU, uh... Yeah. A gladiator of some sort, maybe. COMBAT PROWESS.
     
  17. bane_

    bane_ Howardianism High-Priest

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    I can solve this for you if you send me the code - preferably via PM, since I don't know if I'll remember to check this thread.
     
  18. Doktor Vic Tim

    Doktor Vic Tim King

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    I gave Crimea a run and that extra science from farms can get really crazy since growth=eventual science. Since you will have the earliest access to beakers you will run away rather quickly. And the usual beeline to Civil Service will make you research currency, which will get you the Greil Mercenaries.

    The Greil mercenaries can really get a lot of experience. Up to 12 exp from attacking a city. That's insane. And just like good old FE fashion, you want to keep these guys alive.

    The Royal Knight is what the Cataphract should've been IMO, but it was a rather useful unit for those early AI attacks.

    I'd say Crimea is really strong, but I suppose they're balanced with the other FE factions you made. Really love it, don't get me wrong.

    EDIT: My, am I editing posts today... Either way, while most of th emusic choices were great, I didn't quite like Begnion's peace theme and personally I'd have liked Crimea's war theme to be Bearer of hope or something. But that's just me. We all have different tastes in music and all.
     
  19. KIdanor

    KIdanor Chieftain

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    It has been a while, huh? Anyway, onward with Gallia (description from Codefreak5's thread).

    UA: I like it. Straightforward and represents beast-tribe quite well, with their bulrush tactics. This should give Gallia pretty good tactical advantage without actually just straight out giving them more power.

    All I am afraid is that this might make mounted and armored units little bit too good, especially with Autocracy's policy that lets tanks to ignore zone of control. This should probably be tested before making any judgments, but my gut feeling is that mounted/armored units should get some other bonus (maybe they could benefit from terrain defence).

    I assume that the movement bonus includes civilian units?

    As for the ability's name, how about "Bestial Agility"?

    Lion: This unit sounds interesting. It could basically serve as cornerstone unit of the line with its extra combat strength and bonus for other units. It would also give more incentive to keep around more than one GG at a time.

    How would stacking work with this unit? Would it still outright die if the unit it was stacked with died? Is its strength combined with stacked unit’s strength? Could it stack at all?

    Cat: This unit should give some interesting flanking and pillaging opportunities. Might be a total nightmare for the opponent when combined with ignored terrain costs, however.

    Conclusion: UA should give Gallia good tactical advantage, although it might be little overpowered with mounted units. Both UUs sound interesting and should give more options for the player, as well.

    All in all, very interesting concept.
     

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