Killing the MANTRA (that killed the workers... and other little things...)

[Lazy sweeper]

Introduction to the Pool rules:

"
Every NO! should come with a basic reasoning, and allow me of the privilege of analyzing thy ideas behind the casting of the contrary vote.
In Absence of an argument, every negative VOTE shall be counted as a YES! in the final count, 31.12.2025.
"
Chapter ONE: The Mantra that killed the workers.


It's been a while since I posted a thread on the Civ forum.
I have been very quiet since the removal of workers.
It can seems strange but that was a steady argument over these years, ever since Civ V inception, as being in the focus of a:
-
MANTRA
-
get rid of the workers
-

I tried in any way possible to convince the beholders of the truth by not harnessing the vastness of space-time itself, to bend the identity of Civilization into an Alien monster.
What kept Civilization together. Its "glue". It was deemed un-necessary.
I tried to convince "him" that MAN DO NOT WALK ON THE WATER.
Unless he is convinced to be ROGER WATERS or NAPOLEON BONAPARTE or both plus a third one.
Of course a "transport" vessel is just a "worker" disguised as a wood vessel, to allow other "workers" to traverse the non-solid state of water.
The sacrifice of workers... or "charges"...
I can not count the numbers of times I interacted on the topic... and now it's gone...

So I ask YOU.
Do YOU WANT THE COMEBACK OF THE WORKERS???

So I'll know how many madmans there are.
Which is a Noble principle in itself I'm greatly in favour of its title and all the consequences it bears within and whereafter!
So don't be pre-emptuosly revolted by the statement and rise above the humanly despicable Nature of reality for a moment!

Also, please VOTE AND COMMENT +1 or -1, so we will know whom is voting and the whole Pool is not rigged.
This is not really important but it would be nice to know who picked a side a whose side is another.

 

[Lazy sweeper]

A NO! has been casted but no NAMES appeared here. No Reasoning has been provided. As such the only rule of the Pool has been infringed.

The Pool is now:

YES: 2
NO: ZERO, Nil, Nada, Nicht, Null.

 

[IntelligentDisk]

A NO! has been casted but no NAMES appeared here.
This is despicable behaviour.
Every NO! should come with a basic reasoning, and allow me of the privilege of analyzing thy ideas behind the casting of the contrary vote.
In Absence of an argument, every negative VOTE shall be counted as a YES! in the final count, 31.12.2025.

Why should people voting no have to present a reason but those voting yes do not?

Anyway, I voted no. What do workers/builders add to the game exactly? I think Civ VII loses nothing by having no workers/builders.

 

[Lazy sweeper]

Why should people voting no have to present a reason but those voting yes do not?

Anyway, I voted no. What do workers/builders add to the game exactly? I think Civ VII loses nothing by having no workers/builders.

That is a question as answer to a question.
As such it has to be considered a non-answer and fallacious reasoning.

Thy vote shall be declared YES! as a consequence of this Hubris.

 

[stealth_nsk]

Why should people voting no have to present a reason but those voting yes do not?

Biased polls are the core feature of this forum. We just came to the next level - how to make simple "Do you want... Yes/No" poll biased.

 

[Lazy sweeper]

Biased polls are the core feature of this forum. We just came to the next level - how to make simple "Do you want... Yes/No" poll biased.

this:

Also, please VOTE AND COMMENT +1 or -1, so we will know whom is voting and the whole Pool is not rigged.
This is not really important but it would be nice to know who picked a side a whose side is another.

 

[IntelligentDisk]

That is a question as answer to a question.
As such it has to be considered a non-answer and fallacious reasoning.

Thy vote shall be declared YES! as a consequence of this Hubris.

The point is all they add is pointless micromanagement - nothing meaningful. They aren't complex or fun. It's just a waste of time.

What is your reasoning for wanting them? Preferably without using riddles.

 

[Lazy sweeper]

The point is all they add is pointless micromanagement - nothing meaningful. They aren't complex or fun. It's just a waste of time.

What is your reasoning for wanting them? Preferably without using riddles.

Oh, it's really simple. That micromanagement stuff is what on a subconscious level kept us triggered to the game mechanics involved in the properties of the worker
unit. Because all of us have to work daily to feed ourselves. But this is just a simple answer. Riddles are much more complex and can give a broader picture,
but I understand they can be tiresome.

As a consequence of Logical reasoning your NO! shall be reverted to a NO!

PS: ty for your Space-time, IntelligentDisk!

 

[Lazy sweeper]

Sigh... +7 .... -1....
.
There's one simple rule...
It just has to be a simple. logical reason. It's not hard. Try.
I'm just curious about the thinking behind the choices...
both YES! and NO!...

In the End we could END up with 3 YES! with different Reasons, 70 NO! with the SAME reason, and 30 NO with another, identical Reason.

Statistically there would be 3 Different Reasons behind the YES! and 2 Behind the NO!

Don't you want to know???

What Happens when the US Vetoes against a World Forum Law proposal?
Even if it's ONLY the US and maybe ISRAEL?
Does the LAW passes?
YES or NO?
NO! Exactly!

Do you want to ear the reasonings behind all other 150+ countries that voted YES and those NEUTRAL?
Information Vs Disinformation... this is the difference...

I VETOED the REMOVAL of WORKERS.
Does your NO counts?
NO!

What could change the VETO to Unanimous consent?

LOGICAL REASONING!

Civ 7 Will NOT become a GOOD game untill this thing becomes CLEAR to EVERYONE!

 

[Noble Zarkon]

Why should people voting no have to present a reason but those voting yes do not?

Because the OP decided so in order to spark debate ....

 

[UWHabs]

I liked workers back in the day, but I don't miss them. It's nice to not have to worry about micromanagement, to not have the workers that last the whole game, or counting builder charges.

I wish we had a few more options for tiles, more ways to swap tiles, and so on. But definitely don't miss workers. By the votes, I'm guessing most people have similar views.

 

[uppi]

No, pointless micromanagement.

 

[Evolena]

Because the OP decided so in order to spark debate ....

And also to count any No without reasoning as a Yes, so...

 

[GeneralZift]

I enjoy workers but the poll is a bit biased. I also respect that people don't want to micromanage little guys. In the same way that people don't want to micromanage soldiers all the time, which lends itself to people hating on the 1UPT.

The workers to me represent civilians in a very real way. I really enjoy that improvements are not instant. Instant improvements feel really shoddy, like sort of cheap in a way, like the buttons on a children's toy or something.

You press one button and the farm is instantly produced. Well it doesn't really show that the farm needs work to be built. And so the limiting factor is just the number of instant buildings you can build at any one time rather than work effort of your citizens.

In other words getting a silver mine brought up in an older Civ game required time and investment and it feels nice to connect it at the end. In a new Civ game it requires to basically just click on it and it magically appears in your inventory.

So that's why I enjoy the workers, but moreover I enjoy improvements that take time and planning rather than instant improvements.
Framing it as Workers Vs Not-Workers is maybe the wrong idea.
The reality is that Workers were in a different system which complemented them, and Civ games are pivoting in another way.
Thoughtful game design wanted you to really feel and affect the terrain with your own hands, so to speak, via the Workers. New game design wants to skip that late game grind of moving workers everywhere.

 

[Gedemo]

I voted yes, because I liked to capture the other's civ workers, like a barbarian that makes raids, searching for slaves.

 

[stealth_nsk]

I voted "no" because civilian units in most roles are bad. Moving them around the map is, in most cases, unnecessary micromanagement. Just to look at them:

1. Missionaries and Explorers are identified as one of the biggest micromanagement problem in Civ7 (and one of the problems of Civ6)
2. Workers are gone
3. Diplomats from Civ1 are gone
4. Merchants usually are not managed as units, you just pick a settlement and click "send" (and them being units actually causes problems with things like deep water or Bermuda Triangle)
5. Scouts are considered fine, because we don't know better way to implement exploration. Still, they have auto-explore option
6. Settlers are fine, because settling is relatively rare and important process, so they don't become tedious, although moving them is still not fun.

 

[Krikkit1]

I enjoy workers but the poll is a bit biased. I also respect that people don't want to micromanage little guys. In the same way that people don't want to micromanage soldiers all the time, which lends itself to people hating on the 1UPT.

The workers to me represent civilians in a very real way. I really enjoy that improvements are not instant. Instant improvements feel really shoddy, like sort of cheap in a way, like the buttons on a children's toy or something.

You press one button and the farm is instantly produced. Well it doesn't really show that the farm needs work to be built. And so the limiting factor is just the number of instant buildings you can build at any one time rather than work effort of your citizens.

In other words getting a silver mine brought up in an older Civ game required time and investment and it feels nice to connect it at the end. In a new Civ game it requires to basically just click on it and it magically appears in your inventory.

So that's why I enjoy the workers, but moreover I enjoy improvements that take time and planning rather than instant improvements.
Framing it as Workers Vs Not-Workers is maybe the wrong idea.
The reality is that Workers were in a different system which complemented them, and Civ games are pivoting in another way.
Thoughtful game design wanted you to really feel and affect the terrain with your own hands, so to speak, via the Workers. New game design wants to skip that late game grind of moving workers everywhere.

I think the time taken for improvements is the generating the population to work it. They could make all improvements work like Civ4 villages (it takes time working the tile for maximum yield)

 

[Evie]

No.

The workers are just a mean to an end (getting improvements on the map). They were never essential to the game, and never will be, so there is no reason to put them back on the map and require worrying about how to move them around.

 

[Gorbles]

I voted no for the following reasons:

1. It's a horrendously biased poll that I don't think should impact developer decisions.
2. The OP likes changing peoples' votes for their own, subjective reasons.
3. Oh, and I think that the removal of workers was a good thing, and that custom build actions can still go on unique units to perform flavoursome, useful actions.

 

[disjointaccount]

I also voted no beause workers only added tedious micromanagement and the new system for improvements is much more elegant and does a good job of removing busywork without oversimplifying. I'll also add that with the way the OP read, I fully expected it to end with a, "Thank you for your attention to this matter!"