King of the Hill Scenario

[Rod]

This is a work in progress.

I am currently doing the placement and balancing for a King of the Hill Scenario and I would liketo know your opinions and your input. I will work on this scenario only in limited time, as I have currently some stressy work going on either.

However these are the basic outlines (so far)

New Content :

Six new leaders

(see pictures : http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=5987528&postcount=29)


Objective : Victory in 5-10 hours possible, smooth running on weaker machines, Aggressive Wargame

LandSize : Small, Pangaea, fixed map (pre-designed), 21 mana nodes (3 for each civ - in their core territory), fixed balanced resources,

Fixed Assets :

NO City razing, Aggressive AI, All Victories

6 civs, 2 good, 2 neutral, 2 evil
21 Cities - 3 predesigned cities for each civ, 2 cities for Hyborem and 1 Barbarian city for Archeron

No Settlers available

5 different religions, Fixed Starting Civs

Starting Time : Early

Starting Civilizations :

see pictures (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=5987528&postcount=29)

Good
Bannor (Order)
Elves (Leaves)

Neutral
Dwarves (Runes)
Doviello (Agnostic)

Evil
Amurites (Octopus)
Sheaim (Veil)

I still appreciate any comments, advice, wishes etc.

Please formulate your arguments in an advanced manner (just a little more than just 'I think [this] is bad, good, crappy' , please give arguments for your opinion.

Thank you for any help and advice.

 

[Vulcans]

fixed state religion, everyone gets a holy city, but two people don't get any religion, it's a bit unfair for the two that are fixed into not having any religion.

 

[Sureshot]

Balseraphs would be a better Octopus civ i'd think.

Calabim or Sheaim seem like the best Veil civs.

 

[Sureshot]

fixed state religion, everyone gets a holy city, but two people don't get any religion, it's a bit unfair for the two that are fixed into not having any religion.

ones agnostic and the other gets Cult of the Dragon Holy City.

 

[Vulcans]

i guess diplomacy could be a issue, with everyone disliking everyone else for religious reasons.

 

[Rod]

Diplomacy issues are a feature, not a bug. I forgot to mention that the settings are Aggressive AI and NO City razing either. (but as per current setting the issue will be less in the southwest 2 good + Grigori) Therefore the campaign will move from west to east and from east to west, when the Elves in the north are in struggle with the Barbarians

Victory in 5 hours is only possible if you do not spent 20 hours on building your empire. Early warfare is a must. (therefore this scenario benefits aggression)

Regarding Balseraph.

Please specify why they are better.

(Frankly speaking I had on my list Doviello or Calabim or Balseraph)

Regarding Religion : Yes there are 6 religions and 1 agnostic

BUT

Another option is to go down on 5 Civs (because the Dragons give me a little headache, but could work out fine):

1 Good, 3 Neutral, 1 Evil

Good - (Anybody) (Order)
Neutral - Elves (FoL), Dwarfs (RoK), (Anybody)(OO)
Evil - Anybody(Veil)

 

[Sureshot]

well OO is the religion of Water, Body, Chaos, and Mind, so the civs that make the most sense are Lanun, Calabim, Doviello, and Balseraphs, but Balseraphs also are great at culture wars. Any of those are fine tho (excepting Lanun since you want them evil). I said Balseraphs just because they do so well with the culture bonus of OO.

 

[Rod]

But somehow I miss the epic feeling regarding the Balseraph. You know this big bad straight out of hell enemy sort.

Balseraphs are the weird kind of Evil. They are no monster to smash, just Harlequins ..

 

[daladinn]

my 2 coppers...

- if your using "2 predesigned cities" the kuriotates are going to be a lil bit overpowered. part of thier balance is the inability to build as many cities as the others. if other civs get 2 cities limit the kuriotates to 1.
- are you aligning up the religion and civs based on lore or playability?
- you need to take into account when each civ "peaks" ... dovelio are early game rushers , while teh sheiam are late game unstopables.
- in a good vs nuetral vs evil .... having the shiam without the elohium is unbalanced.
- starting techs for each civ will GREATLY effect the outcome

jsut a few coppers ....

 

[Rod]

Yes correct I was also thinking on a similiar line.

One solution was for me to deny the religious benefits of a holy city and a state religion to the Kuritates, which might hinder them enough in the beginning.

The other option is always to kick them out. (and I really really was thinking on this line all the time)

The final choice of civilizations shall be made on playability, but with a lore background that is visible.

Elohim vs Sheaim - True, but then I had the trouble with the Religions.

More important for me was Order vs Veil.

We might agree on the line that Elohim become a Crusader Religion and adopt the Order. Or we might give the Bannor another opponent then the Sheaim.

Will the Order benefit the Elohim ?

 

[loki1232]

One issue is that with no city razing, the arm counter will not increase.

 

[Sureshot]

AV spread and prophecy wonder are still around tho, so it should (prophecy wonder would have the greatest contribution in this scenario since theres only 21 cities tho).

 

[jan030]

At first I was thinking; the Doviello, why???? Balseraphs or Calabim are way better, both the males i think, more agressive and unpredictable. But then i thaught, Doviello and Clan of Embers starts with peace with the barbarians. I think thats good too otherwise evry civ will be busy with the barbaians instead of eachother. But with the clan you might have a problem with no city razing ;-)
Difficult what to do. Perhaps an evil Hippus?

 

[daladinn]

elegy of the sheiam

 

[Rod]

At first I was thinking; the Doviello, why???? Balseraphs or Calabim are way better, both the males i think, more agressive and unpredictable. But then i thaught, Doviello and Clan of Embers starts with peace with the barbarians. I think thats good too otherwise evry civ will be busy with the barbaians instead of eachother. But with the clan you might have a problem with no city razing ;-)
Difficult what to do. Perhaps an evil Hippus?

yes, exactly this was also my thinking. At first I had Orcs in the scenario, because I love the flair, but then I came up with no city razing and orcs were out. Then I playtested the Doviello once and they are damn fun. They really make for a quick and easy game. That is why I would love to keep them in.

Ideal for starters of Civ and FFH and ideally if you just want a quick entertainment for yourself. Conquer around 12 cities (for Domination) that is not taking too much time. (normally as Amurites etc. you can easily conquer 12 cities in 12 turns,too, but only AFTER you spent 200-250 turns on research and infrastructure)

The only possible replacement are the Hippus but .. actually it seems you can play the Amelanchier Elves as the better Hippus Raiding and Commando and .. ELF (your forest is my road to victory and I do not feel bad pillaging, because forest cottages are soooo much better) ! So the Hippus missed the unique civ condition .. but they are still in the picture for a smaller scenario, when I have to kick out the Doviello.

Btw. I will do a playtesting of a Hippu Strategy for the Elves sometime in the next two weeks, so afterwards I can do a better jugdement.

I also have the Sheaim on my playtesting list. I definitivly have to test the Armageddon Scenario once, so I will try Sheaim full Armageddon - is it possible without razing ? (certainly, because prophecy and veil religion make a good amount of armageddon counts) - I think about placing the prophecy in the sheaim capital from the start .. In this case you might find it hard to NOT let the armageddon counter rise tooo fast

So lets count : Domination over the land (at least 11 cities - 11 veil) - 11 points, founding veil and shrine another 5 or 6, wiping out Bannor (good), mercurians (good), Basium - 12, prophecy mark on most units .. ca. unlimited points .. (apart from elegy of the sheaim ..)
the apocalypse is coming

In this case I am still thinking about replacing the Bannor with the Elohim,as Order Knights, but the Elohim really miss the agressive leader.. but again they would be good for starters thanks to their many traits and .. this anti-armaggedon-project ..

In this case I also need to playtest Hyborem - it might turn out that the Infernals are playable like the Doviello (esp. as they have this big bad monster called Hyborem) - so then the Infernals might be replacing the Doviello as the quick-and-easy-conquer-all civ.

I playtest each Civ in the scenario once, in order to get a good balance of unique approaches, this is actually taking the most time, as I do also have to work (but actually my financee is not in town until December.. so I can spent the time )

Please tell me your opinions

 

[jan030]

Prophecy right at the start sounds good! I like the prophecy but it is always a bit late (well when play ;-)) and if you have enough planar gates you dont have to build a lot of units so the AC wont go up. Good idea!!

When i play and the AI does play Amelanchier he is always staying in his forest country, while Tasunke or (@#*%$#) Rohanna always come out, they are more agressive if you play against them as AI

Keep the Bannor.

and good luck!! Cant wait till it is finished ;-)

 

[Mahatmajon]

Maybe I'm missing something like you don't want the armageddon counter to change, but why no city razing? The AI still puts down some horrible city spots, especially on small crowded maps - this can make the game longer since there are more cities to take & defend.

Otherwise it sounds cool - I'll definately check it out.

 

[Silverkiss]

You can't build settlers either, so the only cities on play will be the initial ones.

 

[Bad Player]

Possibly consider making the Elegy of the Sheiam cheaper - a simple way might be to give them celestial compass from the start.

 

[Rod]

The current development is that it will be 3 cities per civs, but only 5 civs. I am still working on the choices. So 15 settled cities and 6 Barbarian and one island in a lake in the centre where the Dragon City is settled down.

Please lets not talk anymore about ways to raise the armageddon counter, but please lets focus on the task at hand.

Which Civilizations shall be chosen ?

(about game mechanics we still can talk later)