King of the World #2: Frederick

[Neal]

Round 0: In the Beginning (4000 B.C.)
Round 1: Land Grab! (4000-2600 B.C.)
Round 2: Too Slow? (2600-1120 B.C.)
Round 3: The Fall of Rome (1120-375 B.C.)
Round 4: Back to Normal (375 B.C.-400 A.D.)
Round 5: The Setting of the Sun King (400-920 A.D.)
Round 6: Adios, Isabella (920-1110 A.D.)
Round 7: Lightning War? (1110-1220 A.D.)
Round 8: Wars of Annihilation (1220-1540 A.D.)
Round 9: The First Elizabethan War (1540-1615 A.D.)
Round 10: On Safari (1615-1735 A.D.)
Round 11: Age of the Panther (1735-1806 A.D.)
Round 12: Afrika Korps (1806-1840 A.D.)



In this game, we will be playing as Frederick in the Earth 18 Civs scenario (which everyone should have access to, under "Play a Scenario"). Germany on this map traditionally takes on the role of buffer between the small but influential civilizations of Europe (France, England and Spain) and the west Asian superpowers (Persia, Russia, and we'll throw Egypt in here, too). Greece, Rome, Mali and Arabia also fall into Germany's sphere of influence, but on this map they tend to be peripheral characters at best.

History will teach us, of course, that being surrounded by powerful neighbors tends to suck. Just ask Poland. Therefore, we will not stand idly by as our neighbors pick us apart bit by bit over the course of centuries. Instead, we will reach out and take what is rightfully ours! By what right do we claim, well, everything? Let's see. Might makes right. That's a start. We'll make the rest up as we go along.

So, long story short, our goal is to play as Germany and seek a domination win.

Anyway, here's our starting position:



Frederick's settler starts one tile from the coast, which is no good at all. We could move 1 N and grab those two pigs and a wheat, or move 1 NW and grab the same plus whatever's hidden in the fog (This is Europe, so it's bound to be worth grabbing). Moving west will put us closer to France, which is both a good thing (in terms of military proximity) and a bad thing (in terms of cultural pressure and eventual city overlap).

Then again, Germany never has been much of a naval power, so maybe we should move inland, to the south, both to put us closer to Rome and to give us more land tiles with which to get our wehrmacht started. We have a scout that needs our attention first. Move him onto that forested hill to see what we can see? Or check out the east?

 

[r_rolo1]

Move scout E->SE or NE and settler W and post a screenie. ( Just to get a better picture. I wouldn't settle in place anyway ( I hate 1 offcoast starts )). My bet would be 1 S of your starting location

 

[Yeekim]

I did not check the first one, but shall follow this. Nice idea, as I am into Earth maps too

Scout 1S 1SW.
Settler 1S and found the city there.

Research: BW, Agriculture, AH.
Production: Worker first, then grow to happy cap while building Warriors, then start pumping out Settlers.

Long-term I'd try quick initial Settler spam. Germany should have some sweet land + we are Organized. Get yourself nice 6-8 cities (do you have that much reasonable spots?), then give your SE a go. No axe-rushing, wait for cats. By this time, we'll probably get a Holy City from Izzy and hopefully some wonders from Louis.

 

[Quornix]

You don't want to move west -- you're already overlapping Paris where you are. Either 1N or 1S, with 1S giving better eventual dotmapping and final production, but 1N giving better initial terrain with tons of food.

We are allowed to know stuff about the map beforehand, right?

 

[Quornix]

I did not check the first one, but shall follow this. Nice idea, as I am into Earth maps too

Scout 1S 1SW.
Settler 1S and found the city there.

Research: BW, Agriculture, AH.
Production: Worker first, then grow to happy cap while building Warriors, then start pumping out Settlers.

Long-term I'd try quick initial Settler spam. Germany should have some sweet land + we are Organized. Get yourself nice 6-8 cities (do you have that much reasonable spots?), then give your SE a go. No axe-rushing, wait for cats. By this time, we'll probably get a Holy City from Izzy and hopefully some wonders from Louis.

If we get more than two cities built before we're closed in, we'll be lucky. Remember that, on this map, Berlin's fat cross is about the size of Germany on a real map. Cathy is off to the east, and she tends to expand in our direction, and every other way to go has a capital or two within 6 squares.

Let the other fools build cities -- we build axes and get the cities thrown in for free!

I do agree on the tech path, though.

 

[Brave Jay]

I agree that 1S is probably best. city 2 should net you copper, wherever it may be( i don't have any of the resources memorized), i'm thinking it might be se of start. then use a third city (if you have time) to place on the northern coast. Suggested tech path sounds good.

 

[Kietharr]

Germany is in an interesting position on this map, in online play the Germans and the mongols are both always eliminated quickly due to the fact they start with scouts. My advice

1. Build up axes, France is your first target because Louis's culture is really suffocating at times. Next is Rome, then Greece and Spain, then build up a bit of a navy to finish off Europe with England, by this time you should be emerging as a world power alongside Persia, Egypt, Russia, India and China with Arabia, Mali, Japan, Mongolia and the America civs as minor powers. Last time I played freddy I had this fully done about the time that muskets started showing up. You can do it faster if you keep pressing your advantage.

2. Hit Russia first, as they are the closest. Move from there to Persia, Arabia, then Egypt. From there, take out Mali and consolidate control of Africa and Europe/the middle east, fill in and power up. I was about done here when I got infantry

3. Rush through India and China and you are the master of the world with only a few insects left alive, crush em or work around them, your choice.

 

[Morgrad]

I'll second Quornix's question: we're allowed to know about the map beforehand, right? If not, don't read the rest of my post!

Move the scout NW to grab the hut in Belgium before Louis gets there, move the settler 1S and settle - it leaves room for a nice double-pig city to the NW (which Louis will probably build for you while you build axes), as well as a city NE which makes any cottage-spammer green with envy.

Grabbing the Belgium hut also gives you a chance at the hut SE of Berlin before Alex or Ceasar get to it - but only if the AI's random fog-clearing goes your way.

Germany starts with two *HUGE* advantages over the rest of western Europe - you get copper, and room to REX to a 2nd or 3rd city while you're whipping/chopping/building axemen.

I would leave England alone, only because you and Liz will probably both end up with whatever religion Isabella nabs, and financial Lizzie makes for a great trading partner. Sure, the cultural pressure will limit Paris a bit, but Paris is still a tasty production city without the NW part of the fat cross.

BTW, I only know any of this because I started a Freddie 18-civ earth map game last night. The King of the World series inspired me to try out the huge 18-civ earth map, which I had never considered doing before.

 

[Neal]

Oh, I know everything I need to know about what's where. The problem is, I'm conflicted as to whether we should "know" about the map in our discussions.

On the one hand, the map is the same every time we play it, so eventually, it's going to be impossible to plead ignorance. On the other, I'd like to use this series not only to play a game online and glean the advice of more experienced players, but also to raise awareness of what I think is a really cool map.

Part of the appeal, of course, is knowing what's coming and planning accordingly. Are you the Mongols? Don't worry, you'll have horses, but you'll have to fight for decent city sites. Are you France? You'll be dealing with Germany, Spain and England. Are you the Aztecs? You won't have iron, but your unique unit takes that into account. You get the picture.

What do you all think? Should we do away with omniscience-speak? Should we just say what we all know anyway? Should we put things like that in spoiler tags, like this:

Spoiler :

The reason I brought up 1 NW is to snag some cows for the capitol, too. That would be an ungodly food city!

? Personally, I feel that since the map is pretty much open, we should say what we want, but if anyone has a problem with that, I'm willing to acquiesce.

 

[Quornix]

Spoiler :

The reason I brought up 1 NW is to snag some cows for the capitol, too. That would be an ungodly food city!

? Personally, I feel that since the map is pretty much open, we should say what we want, but if anyone has a problem with that, I'm willing to acquiesce.

Spoiler :

Yeah, but you'll catch those cows if you go 1N, while if you go 1S, you can get them and build on the pigs. Anyway, you'd miss the copper in the fat cross at 1NW

No problem either way for me.

 

[Neal]

We moved the Settler 1W and the Scout E-NE and...



Cows! Two pigs, a cow, AND a wheat would put St. Louis (from KotW #1) to shame. But you all are right. Too many issues with having Louis right there. So... SE of the current location, then?

 

[Jet]

"There is no map problem that a few Axemen can't solve."

 

[AThousandYoung]

I'm playing a semi shadow game in Vanilla. Are Frederick's Traits the same in Warlords or different? I have Creative and Philosophical.

 

[Killroyan]

This is going to be interesting. Since Europe is going to be crowded quick expansion is going to be incredible important. Use all the knowledge of the map since it is going to be hard anyway. This will start to look as always war soon

 

[Yeekim]

Ahem, on a map THAT crowded, an axeman rush probably should not be skipped.
I had a vague idea that Huge map should have larger Europe, but...nevermind.

 

[Brave Jay]

Take out rome, followed by greece, then france and spain(spain will probably give you a religious holy city) finally look to the east. Always secure your flank first! I know some people want to just go marching to china right off the bat, but that's not going to work. The distance will cause logistical nightmares, not to mention that someone will be right under your nose to attack you at all times (rome and greece).

 

[Neal]

AThousandYoung: In Warlords, Creative gets swapped out for Organized. Which is better for the establishment of a pan-Eurasian empire, but it will make Louis' culture a problem in the short term, especially once he gets a few Wonders up. Of course, taking those wonders is the whole point of letting him live for a while, so I can't complain...

 

[Hackapell]

"There is no map problem that a few Axemen can't solve."

Best. Point. EVAR.
Jet for Diplomatic victory.

 

[r_rolo1]

Jet is loosely quoting Dr Eimer's statement that had been for a long time in the ALC man sig... but is not completely right: try to solve isolation with a axe rush....

On topic: Second city and BW are top priorities. Europe is cramped and the one that gets axes first will have decisive advantage. I agree with finishing first the guys with early UU, especially the Romans ( greeks should be destroyed too )

 

[Quornix]

Spoiler :

1SE (since you took the free move to the west). Copper is in the small square there, so you can make Rome your second city. You start with mining, so go Worker/Worker/Axeman.

I just checked the map, and I think you'll need a road to use the copper, so tech Wheel/BW and road up your resources and battle path before picking up the copper. You will want to use the Mine command rather than chopping then mining the copper -- the chopped hammers can then go to an axe rather than something else.

Perhaps Worker/Worker/Barracks/Axeman for your build order.