King of the World #9: Genghis Khan

[Neal]

Round 0: The Arid Steppe (4000 B.C.)
Round 1: The Long Rush (4000 B.C. - 1050 B.C.)
Round 2: Staking Our Claim (1050 B.C. - 750 B.C.)
Round 3: Crash and Rebirth (750 B.C. B.C. - 220 A.D.)
Round 4: The Divine Wind (220 A.D. - 565 A.D.)
Round 5: The Battle of... Sparta!? (565 A.D. - 1010 A.D.)
Round 6: Island Hopping (1010 A.D. - 1150 A.D.)
Round 7: What is it good for? (1150 A.D. - 1420 A.D.)
Round 8: More Than We Could Chew (1420 A.D. - 1585 A.D.)
Round 9: Back in the Saddle (1585 A.D. - 1660 A.D.)
Round 10: Minions! (1660 A.D. - 1740 A.D.)
Round 11: Taking out the Eurotrash (1740 A.D. - 1780 A.D.)
Round 12: The Grand Finale (1780 A.D. - 1812 A.D.)

And we're back! The King of the World series takes place exclusively on the Earth maps. In this, the ninth installment, we return to the 18 Civ map to wrestle with the challenges presented to everyone's favorite blood-drinking warlord, Genghis Khan:



I'm a little worried about playing as Mongolia on Emperor, but, hey, if we crash and burn that should be fun, too, right?

Anyway, old Temujin is Aggressive and Imperialistic, two of the arguably weaker traits on the board. If our goal is unchecked total warfare, though (and it is), we should get at least some use out of them.

It's too bad that Aggressive doesn't really do anything for mounted troops, because Mongolia's Unique Unit (the Keshik, a Horse Archer that ignores terrain) and Unique Building (the Ger, a 4 XP Stable) are both designed to make old Genghis the Master of the Golden Horde.

It's just too bad that his starting terrain isn't so accomodating:



Three desert, two desert hills and two peaks in the BFC, along with three unlighthousable lake tiles. And the remaining tiles are almost all plains! Ack! My inclination is to go 1E or 1 NE to snag that second sheep. NE would be the better long-term solution, but it would sacrifice a turn as the Settler trudged up that imposing hill. And time is of the essence when you're dealing with Keshiks.

So once we settle on a homeland, what should our master plan be? Beelining the UU seems kind of dangerous with our limited ability to generate commerce, especially considering what a bear of a tech Horseback Riding is to research. But, then, what alternatives do we really have? And what should our build order be? Is it worth founding a second city before building up to take Beijing? I mean, the Settler bonus is half the power of Imperialistic.

I just don't see how we're going to be able to "get the jump" on China with its difficulty bonuses and better starting position. But, then, if we don't, we're doomed to the Siberian hell that Genghis Khan usually ends up in on this map. Maybe a bizarre loop to take Persia and India...

In terms of Victory Conditions, I dunno. Domination and Conquest always get enthusiastic responses. Maybe, since Genghis Khan is always painted as a disagreeable bum, a genuine UN Diplomatic victory might be fun?

Anyway, I'll let those questions percolate among the audience for a bit. Meanwhile, here's a look at the changes I made to the map:



Isabella was punted to the coast, as was Huayna. I also tamped down a peak to give him access to South America. This time it's a little closer than it was in the Saladin game. I also turned the peak separating Monty from Brazil with water. Making North and South America separate landmasses might help the computer work around the "same continent" bug. I dunno, we'll see.

NOTE: KotW #9 Saves have been taken down to make space. If you want one, please PM me. Thanks.

Here's the save with the changes made, for anyone interested in playing a shadow:

 

[Joshua368]

Whoo, 1NE looks good to me, you certainly want both sheep for food to work as many hills as possible. After that I would settle the sheep/iron city, should help set you up militarily. Not sure why you're complaining about economy, I see a lot of nice riverside grasslands right above you that can be cottaged up good, though you should probably take out China and fill in southeast asia first.

 

[Outshined]

Sweet, the game is on!

In my experience playing the Mongols on the Earth map, I found that there were a few good sites you could settle to the NW and the East. If you are fast enough, settling Korea is a really good option (it has a lot of nice resources). The other ones to the East at least have some food resources (forest deer, pig) and some forests to chop.

Keshik invasion of China is pretty much your best option for expanding into a lot of valuable land in the long term, though =).

Conquest seems like it would be an extremely challenging victory condition on the Earth map. It would be quite difficult to eliminate all 18 civilizations entirely before the time limit, especially considering the AI's tendency to scuttle off with a Settler and go settle someplace obscure in the middle of the Pacific ocean. (Remember that game where Hatty kept escaping to found a city at the last moment?)

Could you explain what the same continent bug is? I am unfamiliar with it.

Making North and South America separate landmasses might help the computer work around the "same continent" bug. I dunno, we'll see.

 

[vanatteveldt]

My experiments with GK so far:

Settle 1NE, build worker, research hunting - AH, pasture horses and sheep, mine grassland hill, grow to size 4, build 3 settlers while teching archery, bronze working, HBR, build barracks, stable, keshik* in capital and barracks, archer* in other cities, conquer china, win

From memory so I might be ommitting something; maybe insert some useful techs somewhere such as wheel, pottery, writing to actually survive the economic crash after capturing china.

 

[vanatteveldt]

@outshined:

The computer can only do naval invasions against an opponent on a different landmass. Thus, if the enemy is on the same landmass but unreachable due to mountains, the computer will be unable to attack. Also, he will never use ships for sneak attacks or to circumvent a chokepoint.

 

[Ultimocrat]

All right -- glad to see the new game up!

CTRL-R, Ctrl-Y! Are those desert rivers or floodplains to the east? If they are floodplains, maybe settle on the plains hill horse? That's a 2F2H start, becoming 2F3H when you discover AH...

 

[Neal]

Could you explain what the same continent bug is? I am unfamiliar with it.

Basically, if a Civ's "target" (be it land to settle on or another Civ to wage war on) is on the same continent, no effort will be made to travel there amphibiously. On Earth, this results in minor problems like Spain taking "the long way round" to West Africa rather than hopping via Galleys. More importantly, it prevents the American Civs from settling Brazil, since they keep looking for a way to walk there, around the peaks in the way.

Oh, and Ultimocrat- Those are Desert Rivers. Sadly, Flood Plains are only present where they were historically. Meaning Africa and Mesopotamia.

 

[Kev]

I really like the move NE. What do you lose really - two desert, a peak, a desert hill, and a plain. Good riddance. Picking up sheep, a plains hill I think, A grassland hill, another damn peak, some useless water, and two tiles with forest. It could be a very nice production capital. The lost turn is no big deal in comparison.

Nothing says you have to wait until Keshiks to get after China. You can TRY to chariot rush if you are bold. Or, quickly build the second city to the NW with an imperialistic settler and you'll have iron along with some grassland to farm. Get after who you can with aggressive swords.

 

[Outshined]

Thanks Velte and Neal. When I had observed this AI behaviour in some games before, I had considered it another example of "stupid AI" rather than a bug, so I was confused. Makes sense, though.

 

[Ultimocrat]

I think 1E is the spot -- grow to size 5 working the two sheep, horses, and two mined grass hills, rush China. 1NE might be better long-term (post bio), but right now it loses a turn, and it loses the lovely riverside grassland hill you'd be settling on. True, it has 1 more hill total, but you don't have the food to work it.

 

[vanatteveldt]

Hmmm 1E does make sense I guess, you save a turn immediately and one more en route to beijing. Due to keshik power beijing is only two turns away from 1E and three from NE unless you build a road somewhere.

 

[CreeDakota]

waiting till HBR for attacking china seems too long. you should be able to get Beijing with chariots, even if you cant finish him off you will have secured your advantage.

Also HBR is an economic tech for Mongols. Pillage all the way to Europe.

 

[vanatteveldt]

I disagree, you have three decent city sites: the gold mine, the iron mine, and a grassland river / cow site. While building those you can tech to HBR and everything is ready at the same moment. 6-10 keshiks can take out all of china with minimal losses, and why not let china build some cities for you (unless you plan to burn everything and rebuild in the correct places, china AI city placement sucks...)

 

[oyzar]

Taking out china with warriors is obviously best, but chariots is also doable...

 

[vanatteveldt]

Well, maybe it is optimal play, but I think warrior rushes on earth map are extremely cheesy because the AI doesn't start with archers as normal on higher levels. Add in the immortal archers and I'm fine with trying a chariot rush.

 

[r_rolo1]

Chariot rush works decently... but taking china normally has the side effect of allowing cyrus to get almost half of Asia to him peacefully ( mainly because there isn't a crappy Genghis AI spamming useless cities in siberia ). But taking Japan out with Keshiks later is fun ( and bloody ) :/

BtW I need to finish my version.... was preparing to cav rush monty

 

[mystyfly]

No note in the old tread again!

Anyway, looking foreward to your last emperor game (you really should move up to immortal in the next game to create some tension...

Good luck

 

[UWHabs]

My vote is chariot rush, then use Imp to build settlers like crazy, completely destroying your economy, just in time to recover it using keshiks.

 

[mystyfly]

Using Keshiks to recover the economy... How exactly?

I would prefer just seeing the Keshiks at action. The longer QSH lives (until HBR for example) the more wonders he manages to build (for you).

 

[fugazi]

By plundering, Mysty!

If you can take out China early on, I'd simply start spitting out cities as fast as you can and then try to recover by cranking out lots and lots of cottages. Running a few scientists might be a necessary evil, but once you get caste system you can happily run tons of merchants in a food rich city to let you turn the slider up a bit so that your commerce cities actually produce science.

Blah, too much talk, play!