Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by King Younk, Jul 26, 2020.
Close to everything.
Moderator Action: Please keep it civil. -lymond
Well, I admit not having played a ton of huge/marathon games. Perhaps it's just that the problems are somewhat different? Marathon makes wars a complete cakewalk which paired with the amount of land available makes your empire bigger, which makes empire management more demanding.
The biggest problem I would have with huge maps is that there is no way I could muster the energy to micromanage all cities to the extent I do on normal. And this would ofcourse make it more difficult since cities will be performing worse.
So in a way you can say that it does add to difficulty that way too.
Huge maps comes with many AI (I have changed number to 17 AI in XML whenever I'm ready to play Huge) so diplo can be more mess and can have tighter race for wonders (Emp not really but IMM - huh, I have seen bloody fast Mids/Oracle (even as 1st wonder of all)/GLH. Sure, war part of game can be super fun-cheese, specially as whips are so great for HArchers/Catapults/Elephants (2-popers with lot of overflow - either into next unit or "Wonder Bread...") but I have shot in my own back so many times literally crashing economy because of that - I have even switched civics just to get anarchy turns to move army to final target before strike could start. So yeah, it is easier to get good chunk of land (cheaper units) but to extract it into actual victory - gonna need a lot of stamina. And bunch of Courthouses (that would never be built under normal conditions).
At least city micro is fun. For me the worst thing is checking whether AIs are going for a particular tech. From playing the NC Alex game last night I feel like I have Ragnar offering me feudalism, construction and drama for Astro burnt into my retinas. It’s tedious doing this on a standard map let alone a huge map. And doing it on marathon…
I guess I would play NTT on a huge map though. Otherwise selling techs is too powerful.
This. While with more AI:s the diplo is a mess, the trade game abuse is insanely powerful.
Map trading, too. I've played oversize map games with 20+ civs where selling maps (post circumnavigation) was worth more than a Great Merchant expedition.
Yep. Paper totally pays off on a huge maps ( simple maths - technology is 1.3X more expensive on a huge map comparing than on a standard, but there are actually 4X more tiles that you can sell to 3X more AI's ).
Yes the tough part is the start and securing enough land. Plus managig beakers as you have to skip non essential techs.Selling resources, maps and techs to Ai is a great way to abuse the larger maps.
Any other stipulations? I normally play on standard, normal, Pangaea, deity (and normally lose.) But happy to roll a huge, marathon map to see what I can learn. My own conditions would be no huts, no events. Looks like you prefer continents map script?
It would take me a few weeks to play out a marathon, huge game but could be interesting to do something different.
I prefer playing on continents, but I always pick shuffle.
How do you get 20 on a map? I want to play a huge map with all 31.
How about this one? Louis XIV won't settle for domination of his island (custom continents, 6 continents, 18 players) and only coronation as world king will suffice - anyone who disagrees can go eat cake...
Have rolled a bunch of random leaders on random shuffle maps but looking at the maps on worldbuilder some of the maps are very inequitous in my opinion. For example, I had one as Shaka where I was fully isolated on a somewhat pathetic island with no happy resources whilst all other 17 civs were sharing a big continent and another where we had something like 8 deer on our island and a bunch of fish but nothing else whilst other civs in the jungle belt had 5-6 gems and ivory and silk...
I haven't looked at this map in worldbuilder as I intend to play it too to give marathon, huge a go unless you'd prefer a re-roll?
Big credit to @AcaMetis for coming up with all those brilliant Noble's Club maps - rolling a good map is pretty difficult!
Spoiler Starting screenshot :
Not sure that is a good save for him as he does not do naval conquest. The colonial costs from continents can ruin games. When i see a sea of wine resources you know it's not a great start. Chances are a distant ai will run away with this. The start looks poor.
@Gumbolt Any suggestions for a better map?
Looking at all the saves @King Younk has posted almost all are water based so I assumed he would want this rather than Pangaea? Continents seemed best option as I wanted to play too and don't think I have the patience for huge archipelago and it would still have the problem you mentioned of naval conquest.
The problem with rolling huge maps that I have found is that I do seem to get groups of resources clumped together - presumably the maps were tested for balance more on normal size where a few wines/dyes/crabs occuring at certain longitudes made sense but in the upscaling has translated into nothing but wines, etc. in certain longitudes?
Have played a bit of the map and don't think the land is terrible. My view was that anyone wanting to play these settings would need to adapt their play style to make it work the map. Priorities would probably be early astronomy to convert all the wine into something useful and communism or spam courthouses to afford city upkeep...
Anyway, happy to play a different map if anyone can come up with something better? @King Younk what are your thoughts?
I always think of a sea of wine as a good start to most things. I started playing it - partly because I can’t imagine a more French start and partly because my probably terminal cold means I can’t face anything more challenging - and it’s a fun change playing with such different settings.
Pretty much agree with @5tephen’s assessment of land (quality and the fact resource clusters like this are just the nature of huge maps), priorities and that it feels like a @King Younk map
Maybe I was too harsh. See how he does on it. I think some continents are okay but on an 18 ai map you want to be able to meet a few.
I am never happy with my roles of huge maps. Always too much gold/gems or absolutely no resourcs of any use. So I am very picky!
The best game is Random landmass type, Huge map (or Large), 18 civs (only because I can't fit all of them at once), on Marathon speed. Gotta play the map you get - if I were to jump through a few maps, I would win more often.
Can we get a game going online this weekend?
Is everyone in the Western hemisphere?
I really like this philosophy - these days I always choose Pangea, NHNE, random civ, all other settings normal and play the map - despite repeated losses this is slowly making me better. Just to put it out there, this was the first and only continents map I rolled so maybe this is the map we got?
I am unable to play this weekend but could upload progress so far on the above map - have played to around T200. Would that be any good? Could probably play a bit next week with regular updates but a map this big will take me a while to complete.
Given the time commitment that comes with your preferred settings of marathon/huge I wouldn’t play a completely random land mass; something really fragmented like archipelago would take me forever with micromanagement.
For me, this isn’t about winning or losing, just getting a taste of some very different settings and hopefully using that to learn some lessons that I could take back to my normal play.
Would happily play if you roll a map script that guarantees reasonably big land masses (e.g. custom continents, random number of continents), no huts, no events, normal sea level, normal climate, all other settings normal aside from marathon, huge (which we can discuss whether are abnormal settings or not!)
Finding a map we would both learn something from might not be possible so no hard feelings if a map that would suit me doesn’t work for you.
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