Kissenger is dead

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Hardly has a man more been unjustly maligned and vilified as Kissinger for being as pragmatic and realistic as hundreds if not thousands of others in high office affecting foreign policy. I think his real sin was his tendency to actually say what he thought, not just do it and cover it in flowery language.
 
I think his real sin was his tendency to actually say what he thought, not just do it and cover it in flowery language.
No, it was definitely the war crimes.
 
I challenged the internet's Rule 34 over Kissinger.
I lost. :(

Hardly has a man more been unjustly maligned and vilified as Kissinger for being as pragmatic and realistic as hundreds if not thousands of others in high office affecting foreign policy. I think his real sin was his tendency to actually say what he thought, not just do it and cover it in flowery language.

He did win the Nobel Peace Prize in 1973. :)
 
Hardly has a man more been unjustly maligned and vilified as Kissinger for being as pragmatic and realistic as hundreds if not thousands of others in high office affecting foreign policy. I think his real sin was his tendency to actually say what he thought, not just do it and cover it in flowery language.

Come on, he was a self-promoting liar who prolonged the vietnam war needlessly after recognizing it was lost. He did not say what he thought. And that is without going into his work spreading chaos in Africa and South America. Granted those cam e with the job and he was kind of straighforward on promoting all those coups and wars.

The only good thing I can say about him is that he was still, despite all that, less bad than his current sucessors. The current ones are mode dangerous, they lack the brains to notice when they're losing and cut losses.
 
He did win the Nobel Peace Prize in 1973. :)

The worst Nobel Prize ever awarded, and if one can win a Peace Prize while doing the things Kissinger did it just makes the entire thing seem like a joke.
 
"Complicated legacy" is fitting.

On the one hand, I believe Kissinger's realpolitik approach is under-appreciated since the end of the Cold War. "The end of history", spreading democracy to Iraq, believing that simply opening markets would lead to countries moving towards freedom and democracy, ostpolitik... a lot of U.S. and western foreign policy was optimistic. Kissinger was still active as a nonagenarian, and even as a centenarian, and I generally found his arguments on foreign policy in the 2010s and 2020s to be well-argued. I might not agree with every conclusion, but he was putting more thought into it than most and making good points.

On the other hand, he put too little emphasis on retaining the moral high ground. Bombing in Cambodia, escalation in Vietnam, supporting the overthrow of democratically elected governments. There's a time to be realistic and there's also a time to say that you have standards. As FDR once said, rules are not necessarily sacred; principles are. There were a lot of decisions made by Kissinger, Nixon, and others in the 1970s that seemed to fly in the face of what one might have thought the U.S. government's principles would be.

War criminal at his worst, wise statesman at his best. I don't think it's an either/or question. Would I trust 1970s Kissinger to made decisions at the State Department? Knowing what I know now, no. Would I consider his advice if I were Secretary of State in 2010? Yes.

Given 2023's reality, where he only had the power to write and speak to the public - primarily in venues targeted to policy professionals - and to hobnob with world leaders, not to make decisions, I think losing him is a loss. Our memories are short, few remember fleeing the Nazis, dealing with the Soviets, and the decisions, including mistakes, in Vietnam. In a world where it's easy to turn inward and argue against each other, his focus and expertise was outward. And I think that's the important takeaway - his decisions in the 1970s may be inexcusable, but the attention that he gave to the foreign policy realm, and the focus on being realistic and not wishful, is something we should strive to regain.
 
Finally!
For those who sensibly don't use Twitter:

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Hardly has a man more been unjustly maligned and vilified as Kissinger for being as pragmatic and realistic as hundreds if not thousands of others in high office affecting foreign policy. I think his real sin was his tendency to actually say what he thought, not just do it and cover it in flowery language.

"he was a ghoul, but at least he was honest about wanting others to suffer for his political machinations" isn't the defense you seem to think it is

But i suppose we can tell alot about a person based upon those that would defend them after their death lmao
 
And just what have you deduced? :sleep:

That there are countless ghouls ready to forgive him, like you did.

Can't wait for your breathless defense of other creeps and freaks
Moderator Action: Warned for trolling. There is no need to get personal about this. The_J
 
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One of the influential people that completely embodied the expression 'power corrupts'.
 
A bad figure in American history has passed away. I would like to pay respects to those who died due to Kissinger’s decisions, and hope there will be diplomats far better than Kissinger.
 
A bad figure in American history has passed away. I would like to pay respects to those who died due to Kissinger’s decisions, and hope there will be diplomats far better than Kissinger.
That's a weird hope. I'd rather hope there aren't that are actually worse.
 
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