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Korea game + policies compatibility

Discussion in 'Community Patch Project' started by matlajs, Dec 2, 2017.

  1. matlajs

    matlajs King

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    So, i have started my own Korea game, after i gave up one, where i was swarmed by barbs and throwed so much back in everything.

    My new start up was much more promising, little production light, but food heavy, ideal for growth and specialist working. After some exploration i did realize, that i have no close neigbour, so ideal situation for not being pressured by hurry settling. i picked tradition, followed by Goddess of purity pantheon with plenty of swamps and some lakes too. But to the point of thread name. Tradition is awfull production wise, so i have picked diligence + mandirs( i hate GP assassinations and food is great). My second choice of policy tree was fealty and i did really well through medieval + renaisance and somewhat good in industrial production wise. But now i have entered modern and i am begining regret of my 3rd choice, which was rationalism. While everything in that tree corresponding for my VC, supporting even more specialist production with its growth and makes GA even better for Korea, i think i should have choosen industry. Korea at this stage of game has probably no competition with science as a yield itself( 100+ science per city), while lacking either gold for investing or production or both at this stage is critical. It is nice to have a tech/4-6 turn but with not enough of those two yields is impossible to realize anything quickly enough, that would make me happy to enter new era with enough infrastructure and advanced army. At this point i am probably forced to pick Order, which i would do probably anyway, but with industry i would had maybe harder time deciding between Freedom and order. I think, if nothing else, that 100% production bonus towards station/ seaport is huge, because its presence in a city skyrockets production to absolutely another direction. I could have some money to invest to those buildings, but i don't like to do that without bank in a city and reality is such, that i am surrounded by merciless nobunaga and catherine, both hostile to me, while nobunaga completely wrecked Napoleon just himself, make him my neighbour :( I WANT MONEYYY AND PRODUCTIOON.
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2017
    IcyAngel likes this.
  2. IcyAngel

    IcyAngel Prince

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    I have lost a lot of respect for leading in science precisely for this reason - it doesn't do anything if you lack other yields (as opposed to culture, tourism, money, food, production, faith... basically all the other yields have inherent value, whereas science has none).

    Plus the reduction in unit supply is brutal; I had to switch from Rationalism to Industry mid-way through the tree recently because my unit supply was crashing hard from all the science! Madness. *-*
     
    phantomaxl1207 likes this.
  3. matlajs

    matlajs King

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    yep, that's other issue. i have actually 24/25 cap but still have arsenals and academies to build, but i still have a lot of older and important stuff to build. It's irony, that a most problematic production and military cup tree(tradition) will loose more prodution due to surpassing that limit.

    I think that even build a Brandenburg wouldn't help for long in case of Korea.

    + Some notice to Order. All the tenets through all ideologies giving free buildings are nice. But the(maybe along with one with hospitals) one giving free academies actually is so-so. Yields are fine, building is fine, problem is, that in half of cases you already have them built. It would be nice to give cities, which already have that buildings(not just academies) a productions cost of that buildings, or at least partialy or gold. I mean, in my actuall case, i can not wait for that tenet and must to build them.
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2017
  4. De_Genius

    De_Genius Warlord

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    After seeing a few people play on different game speeds, and myself only playing on Marathon, some of the tenets for ideologies can either be kind of weak or very strong. Universal Healthcare giving free hospitals, as you mentioned, seems weak on most game speeds, but since I on marathon is able to grab it significantly before even getting in the same era as hospitals, it to me is god-tier providing me with a huge boost to food and gold demand. It is always the first policy I pick from Freedom.
    After your specialist problem as mentioned does tech not give you any direct benefit. With Rationalism you also get huge boost to growth providing you with more specialists and some gold and culture, but Industry has become a very good choice, since it provides gold and less gold demand, production, culture and even a healthy amount of science, all in all a greater amount of flexibility and spread of bonuses.
    I have often taken industry in my games, allowing me to quick gold rush and fast build new buildings, when techs unlocks them, and I even have some cities just spamming culture or science through production since they can actually run out of building to build.
     
    IcyAngel likes this.
  5. Legen

    Legen King

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    If just Wu Zetian were also there, menacing, you'd be living Korea's historic situation in a nutshell.

    Tradition's gameplay has this weakness, you lack production, gold and supply. Sounds like you went for Artistry, maybe Fealty would have been better; monasteries help with Science as well and you'd have that +15% production on WLTKD to help. Korea has nearly nothing to help on Tradition's weaknesses, unlike Babylon (empowered investments) and Brazil (extra gold on every unique), so you're probably better mixing with Fealty or Industry at some point.
     
  6. matlajs

    matlajs King

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    i have picked fealty, thought nothing even touch industry with its bonuses. i am finishing it, having battleships and destroyers on sea, while still having tercios doing historical promenade through my land.
     
    vyyt likes this.
  7. matlajs

    matlajs King

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    it is actually great game. i wish i could have this game with some warmonger civ. not only nobunaga is really aggressive. he actually all the game keep aliance with Rome, who couldn't stay back and rush forward-juggernaut-ish venice + poland lands. both have picked autocracy and it do not look like they intend leave this friendship.
     
  8. CrazyG

    CrazyG Deity

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    The mastery nerf was devastating for a Korea that gets a religion. You used to be able to work engineers for crucial extra production, but now as Tradition Korea I always feel production starved (maybe you shouldn't go tradition anymore). I don't consider him a very strong civ as a whole, especially in comparison to Arabia or Babylon
     
    Emufarmers likes this.
  9. Legen

    Legen King

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    Honestly, perma Golden Age Tall gameplay used to be way too powerful back then regardless of the civ, and Korea is heavily specialized in that. I don't think the mastery nerf was wrong, it's actually interesting that Tall has to bother more with production.

    Nowadays, Tradition requires help in :c5production: production or :c5gold: gold from other sources, pretty much like Progress usually needs help in :c5culture: culture. Without them, Tradition just can't provide the production required for all-purpose cities. On the plus side, Tall/Tradition gameplay has a lot of surplus Happiness, so you don't have to worry about neglecting the needs of your cities as you have to with Progress or Authority. I'd say it's the only tree that isn't punished for specializing its cities, you have to make use of that.

    And that's pretty much the thing about Tradition, you want to specialize your secondary cities to deal with the lack of production. Your Capital is already able to carry you to victory, your secondary cities don't have to contribute to your empire's every single need as Progress and Authority cities have. They can afford to be good at only one or two things instead, that won't drag your empire down.

    Another way to put it is that Tradition cities have to spend production wisely, rather than balanced. A few civs can overcome it with their uniques (Babylon, Brazil), Korea doesn't strike to me as one of them.
     
    vyyt, CrazyG and tu_79 like this.
  10. CrazyG

    CrazyG Deity

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    This to a big extent. I've had cities that went monument-->well-->writers guild-->ampitheatre. Later in the game the production is terrible and the city stinks, but its job is to produce culture and thats what it does. What I would say is that currently you have really big incentives to run your trade routes to allied city states (this produces the most raw yields by far in my experience), and tradition really benefits from internal production routes.

    Tradition is fine in my opinion, but Korea itself definentlty has big challenges
     
  11. matlajs

    matlajs King

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    I had to catch up in science with Rome till industrial, where i finally ran away. tradition has much more weaknesses. i have picked fealty, but w/o +1 faith from specialist i would have defenseless religion, because it was major source of faith. w/o statecraft i had a choosing proposal just because majority of nations liked me and put me on a host chair in congress, but without it i have had just one chance to make a proposal. Rome, Japan and Russia(thought they picked artistry) spammed diplo units wildly. Japan tempted so many coups in this game, but me as a tech leader i have had my spies in cs to defend them against this. I was lucky enough for oil, but not so much in aluminium. But main point is, that playing tradition forcing for suboptimal choice of another tree( industry in this case), because without it and with heavy heavy warmonger competition a game could into another direction for me than i would wish. I have always thought, that playing tradition would mean playing tall with few strong cities and thus i always thought about overall bonuses for first 6-8 cities with a capital getting little more. something like 20% of everything for capital 10% for first ,,x'' cities. But that is just my wish. I will actually win this game in a few turns, but will i have a feel of secure victory? surely not.
     
  12. matlajs

    matlajs King

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    to adition, now about gold. When i pick industry, i am in overall good production shape. I will aline with authoritatians whose choice will be imperialism( they have cheaper units, cheaper upgrading, wonder with making upgrades even cheaper, and high % production for units), also with progress, whose last tree won't be industry. As a tech leader i had become a target for my neighbours anger, constantly DoWing me, and thus my traderoutes didn't last long. There is no safe trading path right now, since AI loves cs banning, which ever surprise me, because mainly statecraft civs vote for this. If i compare tradition with others starting trees, then the most visible optical advantage it has over other trees is border growth. that and maybe some invisible earlier tourism fire. i wouldn't say, that growth bonus is something significat compared to other trees, because it is highly dependable on terrain. if i will not have at least few food strong tiles, no city will grow no matter of policy. extra culture aside from capital is +2 from 3 buildings, where one of them is terrain dependant and 10% of baths can do huge diference later. So probably culture generation is not that important of tradition itself rather than fact, that with somewhat extra culture and with less cities i have cheaper policies and so i will get into undustrial trees faster/ won't be behind so much.


    But to the main point of the gold is, that it serves to other trees (aside tradition) and their strategies to move forward. Authority will spend gold to update skilled units, buy few diplo units for maintain some aliances. Progress can invest to whatever it want to achieve its better position in whatever they picked to follow, while tradition mostly will spend their gold just for catching up in infrastructure and maybe some units to not get overwhelmed if attacked.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2017

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