Korean BBQ: The Redux

[Rancid Sushi]

I'm back, and since the original thread and saved games are probably long gone, I'll just start this anew. As I mentioned last time, don't expect too much high-end CIV literature here. I'm not as good as Sisiutil, aelf, or any of the others, and I'm certainly not as classy. Their stuff is like educational television while mine is very low brow. Sort of like prime time FOX, or maybe even a late-night Howard Stern special. There will be lots of tasteless humor, sarcastic comments about our rivals, and a gratuitous amount of Judas Priest references for good measure. Make sure your children aren't watching.

Round 1: 4000BC-2410BC

Now, the snapshot:



The start:



The question, as always: where to move the settler and the warrior. I'm open to all sorts of lunacy that passes for advice around here, but I'd say that the settler probably wants to move into a forest for some privacy. He does need to grow the population, after all. As for the warrior, I don't know. He should find a spa to get his chest waxed, but this is Warlords, and we don't have Aesthetics in this game. The gruff look is all The Rage (hi guys) in 4000 BC, along with those crazy new draw-string loincloths.

So, your thoughts? I'll probably go slower on the updates this time to allow more feedback.


View attachment 172035

 

[Cam_H]

I'm no early-game expert, but I'd move the Warrior on to the goodie hut tile and see if you get a decent map for more informed decision making.

Best of luck!

 

[Sisiutil]

I sort of disagree with Cam_H, for a change. I like to preserve goody huts for after I've settled my first city; only then do you have a chance to pop a free tech. Then again, moving the Warrior there may be the best option given this start; read on.

I also disagree with moving the Settler into a forest. Why lose a forest that you could chop later? Right now, the Settler is on a plains tile that is not next to a river but is next to a lake for the fresh water bonus. That's a tile that will be sub-optimal until at least Biology, so it's perfect to improve it by building a city on top of it.

However, the only problem with this start thus far is the lack of production: no hills are visible. Hopefully some are hiding in the fog to the east or west. This is why moving the Warrior 1NE might be the best move, as he will at least reveal the tile 1N of the hut, and if that one or the one 2N of the hut is a hill, it will become visible. If you move the Warrior there and see no hills, you may want to do a little exploring with the Settler before settling. Maybe send him 1SW, then 1NW from there, and then decide. I know the Koreans start with Mysticism, but were you planning on founding a religion? I'd forgo it in the interests of ensuring I have sufficient hammers for the capital, and a use for my other initial tech, Mining.

But I wouldn't go too far away. The location is very promising from a commerce standpoint. Wang Kon is financial, and you have several riverside tiles that can be cottaged (I count 6 at least, including the flood plain in the fog to your SW). With the riverside + Financial bonus, cottages on those tiles will earn 3 commerce per turn right off the bat. Sweet! Once the Bureaucracy bonus kicks in, you'll be laughing. But you don't want to move south or southeast and get those non-flood plain desert river tiles in the fat cross. Ugh.

So I end up agreeing with you and Cam_H after all : pop the hut with the Warrior and if you don't see hills, send the Settler exploring, into the forest if need be.

 

[ParadigmShifter]

No cows, so you can't be "Hell bent, hell bent for leather". Also, no code of laws yet,so you can't be "Breakin' the law, breakin' the law". Judas (Bananarama) Priest wouldn't be happy with the start.

 

[Rancid Sushi]

I was going to wait until after we settle somewhere to start discussing religion vs. BW +worker techs. Still, early religion doesn't seem necessary. We have Financial as a money bonus already, and BW will allow the whipping of Monuments in new cities. The lack of production was my first concern when I saw this. It may be the first time I actually go exploring with a settler. Hopefully not. At least we know not to go to the SE. Those Desert Plains will not bring us love.

 

[Morgrad]

This start doesn't thrill me.....

Pop the hut with the warrior, and if you don't see anything overly exciting, settle in place.

A part of me wants to say move both units SW so you can get levees later with more flood plains for financial cottaging - but I think that would cause too long a delay and risks having to have the settler run back because the rest of the tiles suck. Yep. I'm going to ignore that part of me, now. Pop hut, settle in place unless the warrior reveals something that gets you all a-twitter.

 

[goldenhero]

Hmm..I'd say take the chance on move 1SW and settle there. You're on a river, have lots of floodplains, you still get the wheat, and (from what I can see) have no desert to worry about. Also, I would wait for the city to get settled before I go pop the hut with the warrior. That way there is a chance to pop a tech.

 

[Diamondeye]

I'd do something completely unheard and settle the blue circle. It looks as a swell Floodplain site even though I realize one of the rivers are "fake", so some of them are deserts. That, or 1SW if warrior move doesnt reveal anything terrible out there - Cam H has a point about moving the warrior to hut imho.

 

[VoiceOfUnreason]

If I'm reading the map correctly, the river adjacent to the warrior is artificial (created by the start equalizer) - notice that river doesn't have floodplains on at least two piles of sand that we can see. There may be a strategic resource in there, but otherwise you are looking at dust.

I'm also a fan or irrigated wheat in the start, so I wouldn't want to stray to far from the starting position. My choice of actions would be focused on the western river. First the warrior SW to get a better sense for what that river is doing, and if there are no suprises SW with the settler (either settling after the move or continuing west, depending on what shows up where).

 

[DaveMcW]

Settler SW

 

[CrazyCanuck87]

Another vote for settling SW. I can't resist the floodplains, and, by moving, you at least have a hope of a hill in the BFC.

 

[Rancid Sushi]

Even if we do settle first, I don't have much faith in getting a tech from a goody hut on Monarch. It just seems to not happen very often. The prospect of getting BW on the first turn is intriguing, but it's like playing the lottery.

 

[goldenhero]

You may just get gold, but the possibility is there. It's worth taking the risk..especially if it works out.

 

[Rancid Sushi]

As most of your suggested, I moved the warrior to the goody hut and it popped for 41 gold. This turned out to be better than a map. I moved the Settler 1SW and found something that got me quite excited. No, it sadly wasn't a Catherine Zeta-Jones centerfold. See the screen shot.



Yes, we'll have gold in our BFC if we settle here. However, it looks like that will probably be our only hill for Seoul's BFC if we do settle here. Will that be enough to last us the whole game? I'm not quite experienced enough to know myself. I suppose we could lose a turn exploring further for more production. Thoughts?

 

[Sisiutil]

Good instincts on the first move. Stop exploring since you haven't wasted a turn and settle where you are.

The capital will hurt for production for awhile (and have 1 useless desert tile), but I think the gold is worth it for the economic, tech, and happiness boost it will give you. The flood plains give you the option of growing quickly, so Warrior -> Worker should be viable, with Seoul growing to pop 2 once the Warrior is ready.

You'll be hurting for hammers so I think you should get a second city with better production out soon. Looking down the road, make Metal Casting for workshops a priority, then Machinery (which follows from it) for watermills. The plains tiles in the fat cross would be ideal for those improvements, and that will eventually give the capital decent production. The hammer boost from Bureaucracy will eventually help as well. Since you start with Mysticism, you may want to take a crack at the Oracle for MC. But you'll need a second city with better production to build it. With the wheat and flood plains and low production, the capital will be better suited to churning out Settlers and Workers rather than wonders.

I think you'll want to research Agriculture first; you'll need that wheat farmed in order to work the gold mine while still growing your population. (Have your first Worker farm the wheat then mine the gold.) Follow that with Bronze Working. Who knows, you may get lucky and have copper in your fat cross, or at least nearby for that 2nd production city. Meanwhile, build Warrior, Worker, Warrior (while growing to pop 3), Settler. By then you should be working the gold and your early research will be accelerated. Get Pottery for cottages on the floodplains and riverside grassland, then Writing so you can build a library in the capital to keep the tech acceleration benefit of the gold going. Save some of the forests to help chop the library, whip for the rest.

 

[Diamondeye]

Settle now. Seems like there's plenty of and possibilities now, so just founda center as the second city

 

[Jet]

In place is fine. You'll be working cottages rather than producing anything, but you can easily whip the buildings you need, and whenever you're at your happy cap you can pick up some hammers from plains cottages and/or plains forests.

You could stand to chop a few forests for a Settler and maybe a second Worker, since you'll probably want to replace those forests with riverside cottages. But personally I'm not a big early chopper and I would probably go for Pottery and Archery rather than BW; one of these:
Agr / Wheel / Pottery / Hunting / Archery
Agr / Hunting / Archery / Wheel / Pottery
This leverages both your traits, eliminates any need for early Copper, and lets you catch up to BW fast.

 

[Rancid Sushi]

Round 1: 4000BC-2410BC

The round started with founding Seoul and starting research on Agriculture. Our first build is a worker.




I sent the warrior exploring our surroundings in a counter-clockwise circular pattern through the fog around Seoul. After a few turns, he popped a goody hut for more gold.



And then another goody hut, for even more gold.



That ended up being the last goody hut popped this round. We probably won't see another one, but at least now we have enough money to start our own little Korean dumpling shop. I hope the folks in this neighborhood like the taste of dog.

The warrior continued exploring, and we have a coast just west of Seoul. We finished research on Agriculture and continued with The Wheel. Both Hinduism and Buddhism were founded, our warrior fought a wolf (meat for the dumplings) and healed himself. Speaking of dog meat, look who showed up on our doorstep wanting to play with my "ceremonial balls". What a pervert.



The walking diaper stain himself, Huayna Capac. He's probably my most hated leader. He loves to spam wonders, tech like a fiend, and he seems to have a low WFYABTA. I didn't manage to locate his territory this round, but I certainly hope he's close enough for an early rush of some sort. I look forward to once again bleaching that fast-teching, wonder-spamming skid mark off the face of Sid's green Earth. A pox on Huayna Capac *ptooey!* [/rant].

*sigh* Anyway, back to business. We finished research on The Wheel as our worker had begun farming Seoul's wheat. Our warrior killed a panther and earned himself Woodsman I. He explored a little further to the south as we finished our next tech: Bronze Working.



I adopted Slavery, and finished building another warrior. Our worker had finished connecting the wheat and mining the gold. He then chopped a Settler and that's where I stopped the round. We have copper to the south, but it's in a rather lousy spot as you'll see below. As discussed, we need our second city to be good on production and I need your help deciding its exact placement. Here's the known world:



Here's the copper region south of Seoul:



The Eastern frontier:



And Seoul with its nearby coast:



We could settle the copper, but that area is rather production-poor. I suppose the alternative would be to tech Hunting --> Archery once we finish Pottery. BTW, working the gold mine shaved three turns off that tech. The Metal Gods have been kind to us in terms of luxury, but cruel with respect to production. However, we may still find iron in a good spot. We also have yet to research Animal Husbandry, so there's the possibility of chariots for early barb defense as well. Don't forget, we also have our resourceless UU which will hopefully allow us to administer a red-assed, Korean style beat down on old HC before he gets too powerful. I'd like to start teching towards Construction soon. Thoughts?

 

[mikeyredk]

The best way to get that copper is to build the city 1NE this way you connect to your capital without running a long road the river does it for you. It has decent early workability as a production city after it pops its borders once. Plus who needs hammers when u got a whip?

 

[vicawoo]

Nothing wrong with the copper city. Food for whipping and or specialists. Land around you is awesome.