KRYS03 - Deity Sumerians - C3C

[kryszcztov]

[THIS POST WILL BE EDITED A FEW TIMES. CHECK IT BACK AFTER A WHILE.]
[2003/11/26 : THIS POST WON'T BE EDITED ANYMORE.]

Hello civfanatics ! This is a new month beginning, that will see the release of a new expansion pack for our beloved game.

So my next SG will probably (what ? "surely" is the word !) use Conquests. Before anyone steal my idea (what a brillant one), I want to let you know that I want to play as Sumer for my 1st game. So this game will feature Sumer as our civ, and the level will be Deity only, so as to play a relax game for discovering purpose. Maybe I'm too confident here...

Before anyone gets impatient (you are, of course), I also want to note that I won't be able to get a copy of C3C before November 14th, given my location. And BTW, I hope it will allow me to play whatever game without any kind of bugs or incompatibility issues (see current sig). Folks who design the game have been unable to answer my questions about that so far !!! But in a way or in another way, I'll eventually get this expansion pack.

Previous games :
KRYS01 (domination victory in 1490AD)
KRYS02 (conquest victory in 1755AD)

Here are the settings of the game :

World Size = Standard
Land Mass and Water Coverage = Continents with 70% water
Climate / Temperature / Age = Normal / Temperate / 4 Billion
Barbarians = Roaming
Civ = Sumerians
Number of Opponents = 6 (all the standard new C3C civs)
Available Victories = All except Wonder Victory
Difficulty = Deity
AI agression : Normal
Culturally linked start locations : No
Respawn AI players : No
Preserve random seed : Yes
Allow cultural conversions : Yes

We will try to use no exploit at all and play accordingly to the Epics spirit. But we won't stop or reload the game if we found out that someone used an exploit (deliberately or not).
I want to point out that many bugs/cheats/exploits will probably be fixed with C3C, so this will surely be less of an issue ; but still, please follow such rules.
Also, because this is a succession game, try to follow these rules :
- don't set up governors in our cities ;
- don't set up automated workers ;
- don't set up auto-goto units.

We will all play 20 turns in the 1st round, and 10 turns from then. You have 24 hours to post your saved game OR to post a "got it" message. If you post a "got it", then you are granted a total 72 hours to post your saved game, so that we can have the time to talk about the new stuff.

Don't hesitate to post questions, suggestions, strategy thinkings, before or after your turn ! Don't hesitate to play as you want to (if you think the previous player has messed a little, for example), and don't be afraid to take some risk, as long as we agree on a general strategy. We'll learn things that way. I'll try to post comments after each turn, so we can discuss what to do next every 10 turns (20 in the beginning) ; I encourage everyone to participate in the debate !

Remember : we're here to learn and enjoy playing Civ3 !!!

If you want to participate, please tell your preference in the roster (I'll be 1st anyway).

The roster :
kryszcztov
Greebley
Kuningas
Teknoice
amirsan

 

[vbraun]

I knew someone would be taking my idea...

At least mine was the first

This isn't a sign up but ill be lurking in this one.

 

[Ville]

@vbraun
But my SG was (probably) 1st for C3C

I'm not joining but I'm lurking both games

 

[vbraun]

@Ville
Ok maybe you beat me to it. But mine features all the new things in Conquets. (all the new civs...)

BTW, I had the idea (about a week before) i just didn't want to post to soon.

 

[Speaker]

Originally posted by vbraun
@Ville
Ok maybe you beat me to it. But mine features all the new things in Conquets. (all the new civs...)

BTW, I had the idea (about a week before) i just didn't want to post to soon.

I believe this idea was taken a year ago with PTW, using a new Civ against the rest of the new Civs. I hope you are posting in jest here since there are likely hundreds of us who "thought up" this idea.

Not a sign up, just a note.

 

[kryszcztov]

(Thought I'd already have some players signing up...)

@ vbraun : I saw your game, and it gave me the idea to quickly set up my game too, because like you said, another folk could have the same idea as you. But my idea wasn't to set up a C3C game (everyone has thought of that, of course), my idea was to set up a game with the Sumerians. I have wanted to play with them since years ago, and now that they come in, I won't ignore them. BTW, my idea was posted several days ago at RBCiv, before I saw your "Maya Melee". And my game is on Deity... Wanna go for a ride ?

@ Speaker : Too bad a RBCiv player like you doesn't want to join, but oh well.

Anyone welcome, be you from RBCiv or not ! Just accept those rules (designed so as there is more fun and fair play) and you're aboard !

 

[Speaker]

Originally posted by kryszcztov
@ Speaker : Too bad a RBCiv player like you doesn't want to join, but oh well.

Sorry Kryszcztov, but I have already joined Arathorn's "Exploring Sid" game and I'm not sure at this point I have time for much more than one SG. I would also like to explore some of the new traits and Civs by myself, to see if Sid is all that it's cracked up to be. I've gotten a little bored with straight up Deity to tell you the truth.

 

[kryszcztov]

BUMP !

So, now that a lot of people can get their copy of C3C, I'm awaiting confirmed signups for this game. If any North American player wants to play in a C3C game after having tested the game a bit, you're welcome, because this game won't start before the November 15th/16th weekend. Note that this will be played with the Epics rules, and that it will be a Deity game with Sumer as our civ. If you want to be amongst the first to beat Deity in the C3C final version, come aboard !!!

 

[Greebley]

Kryscztov,
I would play this if you can find 2 more ppl.

You could try a PM to Amersan. I think he was looking to start/play in a diety game. If so we only need 1 more.

I will get conquests next week most likely.

 

[kryszcztov]

Greebley, welcome here ! I want 5 players for this one, but if I can't, we'll just play with 4. Agree with RBCiv rules (though some might be obsolete) ?

BTW, I edited the 1st post : 72 hours (3 days) to complete your turns and report. This is a new game, and we want to play wisely, so as to see all the new stuff. Debates will be more important !

 

[Greebley]

I generally do play by the RBCiv rules. There are a very few I think are silly, but those that are real exploits I tend not to use even in my personal games. For example of a "silly" one - buying workers in PTW - it doesn't seem an exploit at Emporer or Deity - the price seems a fair one and you aren't going to be able to buy enough to hurt the AI.

 

[kryszcztov]

Buying workers early in the game can cripple a civ so much that we can already predict it won't be a meaningful menace afterwards, if we buy, say, 3 workers... That's why it's forbidden. Anyway, would you sell some of your workers in the Ancient Era for some gold ? I wouldn't, they are so precious. The AI obviously doesn't feel the value of such units.

I'm thinking of playing as freely as we want. After all, so many things seem to have changed, so it could be interesting to do all kinds of actions we found available, and to report those that can be listed as cheats/bugs/exploits. But there are some things that won't have changed for sure, like the RoP rape : surely it would be uninteresting to do such a thing ? Well, I'll wait for more people to express their point of view.

I saw your post in GB's thread : well, he's welcome here ! We could merge our games, but I know one thing : I want to play as Sumer on Deity !!! Maybe not enough people are registering because the game isn't worldwide available yet... If anyone wants to play here but doesn't have the game yet, please tell me, it will make things easier to set up. And we are in the same boat : waiting for the game to be shipped.

 

[Greebley]

The point is you can't buy 3 workers from the AI at diety level. You can afford at most 1 or 2 (I am talking early on). The human would bankrupt himself for 2 out 5 (I think they get +4?) workers which isn't going to slow the AI down. The only reason to buy workers at deity is because you want them.

At emperor, if you are worried about it being exploitive, then limit yourself to 1 per AI. Thats usually all you can afford anyway.

At monarch and below, then I feel the argument that it can be exploitive is sound.

I guess the point is that to arbitrarily state that purchase of a worker is exploitive is incorrect.

This game is deity. Because of my points above, I think limiting the ability to legitimately buy a worker because it is exploitive (remember I am passing up techs to do so) is wrong.

Of course if you want to play by that rule we can. Nothing wrong with varients in SG's. So my points above are more philisophical in nature than practical.

 

[Rik Meleet]

This is not an I got it. I am going to buy C3C, but my time and funds are currently limited. I'll check this link back when I've got it (in a few weeks) to see whether there is still a seat free for me. If not, well then I'll sign up somewhere else.

Good luck.

 

[amirsan]

Originally posted by Greebley
You could try a PM to Amersan. I think he was looking to start/play in a diety game. If so we only need 1 more.

you are a good watcher Greebly. If I am welcome I will play if it starts soon. I have conquests and have beaten Diety in an SG and was close in a regular epic (never continued, lossed interest). Well I didn't get a PM from Krys... but I saw that you have three spots open in your sig in "The Ultimate Settler Factory". Amirsan is back to SGing.

 

[kryszcztov]

Hello folks ! Glad to have you here !

amirsan, if you clearly show interest in my game, then you're welcome ! You'll get to know how to beat Deity on your own.

Rik Meleet, nice to see you back here ! I don't know when this will start, because I'm still waiting for the game to be shipped... and for people to sign up.

So I consider amirsan is interested.

Don't forget this SG will be played with the Epics spirit...

 

[amirsan]

me interested? Hell yeah! I was looking for a game like this, I thought the roster here was full, I didn't even bother looking . Let the games begin! Or atleast we have to wait... do you know exactly when it should be coming>?

 

[Greebley]

Welcome Amirsan and Rik

Rik, maybe when Krys has the game and has posted the start, you can give us an update on getting conquests. I personally don't mind waiting a little bit if it will be soon. Alternatively, I have no problems if we start and post pictures so you can comment, and then have you take a turn when you do get it assuming that was fine with you and the rest of the team.

 

[Griselda]

Greebley,

Might I ask you to re-read the worker buy rule?

"Seed Corn": When the AI's sell off too many of their workers too early, they are selling off their civ's "seed corn", so to speak, crippling themselves for negligible short term gains. Short Version: overbuying AI workers is now officially an exploit! Long version: This aspect may be addressed through the expansion, but for now it remains a serious balance issue. Players may not knowingly acquire the last two workers from any AI civ, until the year 1000BC has arrived. At that point, any number of worker buys are allowed. Until then, players must restrict worker buying using their honest best judgment. Deity games allow for more worker trades than other difficulties, including buying one of an AI's three starting workers at any time. Emperor games should not buy any workers until the civ has had time to produce a third (they start with two), which will be at least 2500BC. Monarch games should just avoid all worker trade until 1000BC, unless you see specific evidence to make you believe they have at least three workers. Less experienced players may have difficulties adhering to this, just use your best judgment. Community veterans will know how to follow this edict. No stealing the seed corn from stupid AI's.

You can see that the RB rules do not forbid all worker purchases. On deity, you are more than welcome to buy a worker in 4000 BC if you magically have contact and gold available.

The point is that the AI does not correctly prioritize rebuilding workers once they are bought (or captured). The issue was addressed in PTW to some extent by increasing the cost of workers. That makes it more difficult for the player to afford, but no less destructive for the AI.

It's likely that the RB rules will be revised as we get to know Conquests. However, unless the AI now knows how to sell its workers without crippling itself (not a change that I've heard about, although it's possible that there are undocumented changes in that area), it's very unlikely that this rule will be removed.

Of course, players are welcome to use whatever ruleset they want in non-RB succesion games. I just want to clarify a bit.

</hijack>

-Griselda

 

[Rik Meleet]

Originally posted by Greebley
when Krys has the game and has posted the start, you can give us an update on getting conquests. I personally don't mind waiting a little bit if it will be soon.

I am in a bit of a financial (RL) trouble. I hope to be able to buy C3C soon, but I fear I'll have to wait till early or mid December. And that period coincides with a time-stressed period for me. If all goes well I have the game early December and I am able to play when I am up (in between obligations), but I fear I won't have the money to buy C3C till late December and can't find enough time to play till after X-mas. I don't want you to wait for me for over a month for this.

I will be lurking and I am willing to jump in, in case someone drops out. That's my situation. You can choose how to continue in this game. If something changes in my RL situation with relation to my financial situation or my time situation I'll let you know.