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L5R - Legend of the Five Rings

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Creation & Customization' started by ancestral, Jan 11, 2010.

  1. ancestral

    ancestral Warlord

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    I've toyed with the idea for a long, long time, and for modding in different games. However I keep returning to Civ IV and, well, now that I've got the Complete Edition I think it's time.

    Welcome to the Legend of the Five Rings development thread for Civ IV: BTS!







    How to Help
    If you have familiarity with Legend of the Five Rings, or simply an interest in East Asian cultures and history, and would like to see this mod released, consider volunteering to help! There will certainly enough work to do. At this point it's still in the design phase, so any input you have would be awesome. Feel free to post reply, or send me a PM directly if you so choose.

    There will always be a need for design help, how to implement something, what to include, but there are many parts of the project that I am not as strong in doing, including unit artwork, music and sound. I'll do my best to update this post reflecting what the mod's current needs are.

    What is L5R?
    Spoiler What is L5R? :


    Miyamoto Musashi, a real Samurai who wrote The Book of Five Rings.


    L5R (Legend of the Five Rings) is a game loosely based on a book, The Book of Five Rings by a famous Samurai, Miyamoto Musashi, written some time around 1645. Much like Sun Tzu's The Art of War it is a treatise on military strategy. I have not read the book, but one of the things he emphasizes is a unique combat style involving both a katana blade and a wakizashi (a short sword).

    The world was imagined by the folks over at Alderac Entertainment over a decade ago using this book as inspiration and made it into a collectible card game. They went further and developed a tabletop roleplaying game later. (I smell an opportunity for an MMORPG in the future…)



    And yes, there are five rings, representing the elements Earth, Air, Fire, Water, and a fifth element, Void, which describes nothing, or perhaps that of being present or staying connected.

    It's a story set in a fictional, Japanese-like continent in a feudal society with not only Samurai and Monks, but also magic through Shugenja — powerful priests that channel the elements around them. The continent of Rokugan is separated into Clans (much like states) and the nation as a whole is ruled by the Emperor (just like in feudal Japan). Samurai swear to the code of Bushido and honor means everything, where your actions reflect how you are viewed and whether you bring glory or shame to your family name. And there's an ever present evil called The Shadowlands containing ugly, monstrous Oni that continually threaten and plague the Empire.


    The Plan
    The plan right now is to make a TC mod and after that a scenario set at a specific time in Rokugan's history.

    Buildings
    Haven't thought this through all the way, but there are some possible things to add. Tea houses and geisha houses, for example. Will probably defer to various holdings used in the CCG.

    Civilizations
    Playable sides will be of the various clans.

    • Crab
    • Crane
    • Dragon
    • Lion
    • Mantis
    • Phoenix
    • Scorpion
    • Unicorn
    • Minor Clans
    • Imperial Families
    • Spider?
    • Naga?
    • Nezumi?
    The major clans will be the bread and butter of the mod. Ronin, Kolat, and The Shadowlands will play a role as Barbarians. Unsure how exactly I'll handle The Shadowlands; if I elect to keep it in the TC then it will be small pockets of taint, though perhaps it could be elevated in the late game. Naga and Nezumi I'm unsure of also; perhaps they could be worked in through events. Certainly in the scenario all this will be more easily doable.

    Events
    Expect various events, some pleasant, others not. Again, I'll probably borrow things from the CCG here.

    Technologies
    Obviously the tech tree will need to be reworked. I plan on keeping most of the Ancient, Classical, and Medieval techs. Expect some techs like Alchemy, Horse Breeding or Siege Warfare. Generally, the tech tree will be expanded, though will stop before the end of the Renaissance. (Sorry, but the denizens of Rokugan don't get to invent Gunpowder or Railroads.)

    Units
    I have a very incomplete unit list, but expect it to include:

    • Samurai
    • Infantry
    • Cavalry
    • Monk
    • Courtier
    • Shugenja
    • Ninja
    I hope to add some new and different promotions, taking a few cues from the CCG and RPG.

    There will certainly be unique units; perhaps as many as two or three per clan. Scorpions might get Deceivers, Lions get Akodo Champions while Unicorns get Battle Maidens, for example. I've got a nice list of possible UU's to do here; it's just a matter of paring it down.

    What's Next
    At this point I need to finish lists of the techs, units and buildings. After that it's time to write some XML files. I'll be, hopefully, putting up a tech tree sometime this week, open for critique.

    Spoiler Update 11-15 :
    Sometimes things sit on the back burner for a while. And sometimes you play Civ V and realize how much you actually miss Civ IV!

    I've been thinking through this mod some more and trying to capture the flavor and feel of the L5R universe. I've been thinking mostly of cities, improvements, and units.

    Cities
    The Legend of the Five Rings setting is in a small scale. Rokugan is in one corner of a continent, with 8 major clans each holding approximately 3-5 towns or cities and a handful of villages. It doesn't yield well to quick expansion. To keep things small, I'm thinking of imposing stricter penalties for large clans to keep fast expansion down. This will also force players to really think their building choices and should help with the invariably fewer number of wonders that will be present.

    Settlers and workers are the heimin farmers, with the other heimin artisans, merchants, and priests/monks making up the city specialists.

    There are 5 schools that players will be able to build in their cities, but, there will be a limit of 2 per city. Players can choose to build bushi, courtier, monk, ninja or shugenja schools; from there they'll be able to train samurai of those schools.]

    Wonders
    So far, the Kaiu (or Carpenter) Wall is the only one that springs to mind, but I'll have to leaf through my L5R resources because I know there are others.

    Other tidbits
    • Delete a unit --> Commit Seppuku
    • Gold --> Koku


    The goal right now is to work on each clan one at a time. Starting alphabetically, I'll be detailing the Crab.

    The Crab Clan
    THE DEFENDERS

    The Crab have a brash, rough attitude, as seen by the other clans. Being so close to the Shadowlands it has emboldened their strength and push for victory as the first line of defense to the Rokugan.

    Gameplay Considerations
    • Except in the scenario it's not going to be possible or fair to push hordes of oni onto the Crab, especially without an awesome Carpenter Wall to help repel them.

    Starting Techs
    • Mining
    • Wheel
    • Fishing

    Landmarks
    • The Carpenter Wall may play similarly to The Great Wall.


    We'll see where this goes…

     
  2. Tholish

    Tholish Emperor

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    What kind of victory conditions will you have? What will replace Spaceship and Diplomatic victories? What about naval?

    There's probably plenty of unit artwork out there, between ethnic flavor units, units from the old warring states mod for Warlords, and units from other eastern asia mods like Three Kingdoms, as well as even FfH like for the Oni and mages.
     
  3. ancestral

    ancestral Warlord

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    Excellent questions!

    There will not be a Spaceship victory, obviously. Diplomacy I sure hope so. (Ascending to the throne of the Emperor is a thought.) I'd like there to be an Honorable victory. Maybe through some Python scripting I can somehow track honorable actions and have an Honorable Victory. Also cool would be to have an Elemental Victory — basically, mastery of all the elements.

    I will have some ships and naval vessels as the Mantis and Crane certainly did.
     
  4. ancestral

    ancestral Warlord

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    Alright, here's a sketch of what it might look like.

    Couple of notes:
    • There might be some space between techs
    • Some techs might require others even though they don't say here
    • They might not all line up the way they may appear to.

    Comments are always welcome.

     
  5. The_J

    The_J Say No 2 Net Validations Retired Moderator Supporter

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    Are there no crosslinks between the tech lines, or can they not be displayed?
    Because only straight lines in the tech tree would make it a bit boring imho.
     
  6. strategyonly

    strategyonly C2C Supreme Commander

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    Take a look at my old Japanese mod, i think its still available, look in my signature for "My Productions." I believe its a Warlords mod.
     
  7. ancestral

    ancestral Warlord

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    Alright, I'm due for an update!

    Here's version 2 of the tech tree:

     
  8. Tholish

    Tholish Emperor

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    StrategyOnly was talking about this

    http://files.filefront.com/Japanese+Mythology+v009zip/;14630481;/fileinfo.html

    If you have Civ 3 there was also a great mod with one of the expansions that has lots of ideas.

    Now you just have to assign functions to each tech. What unit, religion, corporation (clan?), building, civic, build, promotion, or bonus does the tech give.

    Incidently I was thinking about doing a less fantasy like mod about the Yayoi period (500 BC to 250 AD) which is about right at one year per turn and covers stone through iron age but since writing was only imported from China at the end there are no historical records to dispute whatever you put there (as long as it is archeologically correct). You can have completely anachronistic Ninja and Samurai and Ronin and whatever.
     
  9. hida takinoshi

    hida takinoshi Chieftain

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    I really like the tech tree so far. How big of a world map were you thinking? With the addition of the Burning Sands, there are so many options for a different scale game involving the Ivory Kingdoms, Senpet, etc. I was thinking of a Rokugan exclusive scenario for the Scorpion Clan Coup (perhaps the black scrolls would initiate certain events leading to the final confrontation), or even a scenario involving 1000 years of Darkness. Unfortunately, I don't know much about the mod system for Civ IV, or coding.. but I have ideas and might be willing to help when I have time to spare.
     
  10. ancestral

    ancestral Warlord

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    Cool.

    I'd be totally stoked for a Scorpion Clan Coup scenario (1123). I'm also thinking it might be neat to have The Battle of White Stag (442) when the Gaijin attacked the Empire, and the Second Day of Thunder (1128) and perhaps a "present day" scenario (1170). We'll see.

    I'm probably going to stick with just Rokugan. I think that's going to be big enough, and frankly, I think there's a lack of information about the Ivory Kingdoms, Merenae and Thrane. There is some with the Burning Sands, but I think it might be a bit much for now.

    Next to do is a skeleton of civs and leaders.
     
  11. nazizombies

    nazizombies Chieftain

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    sounds like a cool mod :goodjob:

    i dont really know a lot about L5R, so please bear with me, how about a castle for each of the elements (eg water castle). also got a few ideas for units, but i dont know whether they are related to L5R.

    Ok, here are some unit ideas:
    Daimyo (mounted unit)
    Flaming Arrow (siege)
    Yabusame (mounted)
    Morutaru (siege)
    Yumi (infantry, archer)
    Ashigaru (gunpowder units)

    btw, i can do basic modding, though im not that great at it
     
  12. Shiba Yoshirou

    Shiba Yoshirou Chieftain

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    I am up for helping out with this. I should have some input for ya this coming week.
     
  13. Suzume

    Suzume Chieftain

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    hello !

    I would be glad seeing a l5r mod become available.

    In my humble opinion, you should use some parts from this mod, History of the three kingdoms :

    http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=304872


    Many buildings are already looking orientals, and above all the heroes management would be suitable to represent the main characters of the l5r universe.

    I'm unskilled with programming, but if there ways to help you, let me know !
     
  14. Suzume

    Suzume Chieftain

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    Daimyo are generals, or Leaders
    Siege weapons are rare, except in the Crab clan
    Gunpowder is illegal in l5r universe

    fortifications are not common either and the best should be an unique building for the Crab
     
  15. Suzume

    Suzume Chieftain

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    I see no icon to send a PM, how do you do that ?
     
  16. The_J

    The_J Say No 2 Net Validations Retired Moderator Supporter

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    You need 5 posts and have to be registered for 5 days before you can send private messages.
     
  17. Suzume

    Suzume Chieftain

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    okay, thanks !
     
  18. ancestral

    ancestral Warlord

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    Welcome back, everyone! Sometimes things sit on the back burner for a while. (And sometimes you play Civ V and realize how much you actually miss Civ IV!)

    In this post, I’ll be talking about the basic units that would be used in the mod.

    Basic Units
    One of the things that will distinguish L5R from the standard game, and perhaps other mods, is the variety of UU’s for each clan. (On average, I foresee about 6-10 UU’s apiece.) All the same, there will still be new and renamed units to make this setting feel like Rokugan.

    Keep in mind, the statistics for each of these base units will likely get tweaked and balanced. Classical Era units will be an upgrade, but will not completely obsolete Ancient Era units.

    Wild Animals
    Some new animals here! Boar, more ferocious in L5R than in real life, is 2S/2M like Panther. Tiger will either be 3S/1M or 4S/1M. (Would it be a showstopper if I went with a 4S/1M?) Viper is 1S/2M like Wolf.

    ■ Bear (3/1)
    ■ Boar (2/2)
    ■ Lion (3/1)
    ■ Panther (2/2)
    ■ Tiger (4?/1)
    ■ Viper (1/2)
    ■ Wolf (1/2)

    Shadowlands, Kolat, and Ronin
    Shadowlands units are mostly monsters (oni) and tainted regular units. The Kolat will act more as rebels, as a nuisance, perhaps rolled into random events.

    Finally, there may be bands of Ronin around, some hostile, some neutral, some friendly. I’m not entirely sure how to work this into the game, but there are many possibilities here. (Perhaps through high culture Ronin Samurai may swear fealty and join your clan. Or all the same, a Ronin could sneak-attack your village on its turn!)

    Ancient Era
    Not surprisingly, many of these units remain the same. The Horseman won’t require wheels but is intended to be a cheaper and earlier mounted unit like the Chariot. (Given the emphasis on horses and cavalry I may have to think about making horses more prevalent in the game in order to make then more accessible to players.)

    Courtier is new. Welcome these diplomats to the game (an homage to Civ II if you will). Think of these like missionaries except diplomatic; the details on their abilities I haven’t worked out yet, but assuredly, they will help improve your relations with others and the Emperor.

    Monk will act like missionaries, though they won’t be consumed during spread of religion, for example. I haven’t fully worked out their mechanics, but certainly they can hold their own defensively.

    Berserker is unlike the Civ IV berserker and more like an aggressive fighter, like the Axeman. (They’re not always adherents to the tenets of Bushido.)

    Sampan is simply a renaming of Work Boat.

    I haven’t decided; I may make Settler more expensive, in an attempt to discourage rapid expansion.

    ■ Archer (3/1/25)
    ■ Berserker (5/1/35) Axeman
    ■ Courtier (1/2/20)
    ■ Horseman (3/2/25) Chariot
    ■ Monk (1/2/40) Missionary
    ■ Sampan (0/2/25) Work Boat
    ■ Scout (1/2/15)
    ■ Settler (0/2/100)
    ■ Spearman (4/1/35)
    ■ Warrior (2/1/15)
    ■ Worker (0/2/60)

    Classical Era
    Bushi are your staple samurai units. Likely the bread and butter of any clan’s trained army. Keep in mind Bushi are low-to-mid ranking samurai here.

    Cartographer is functionally similar to Explorer and is a non-offensive unit.

    Koutetsukan is a large turtle cargo ship that can only traverse along large rivers and coast lines. It is not a Galley, but similarly as powerful.

    Ninja Spy will be similar to the Spy but reworked slightly. They may include an assassinate ability or that may be spun off into its own Assassin unit.

    Shugenja will be an interesting new unit. In addition to being a mild fighter, the Shugenja will have the ability (in place of an attack) to heal other units. I haven’t decided yet if it will only heal x number of units in a turn, or only those in the same tile or adjacent tiles.

    Siege Engine is a somewhat generic name for various siege weapons (including Oyumi, Ohitsuji, and Tosekiki) though not including the Trebuchet.

    Sohei are warrior monks. Haven’t decided on the statistics yet, but I’m thinking a passive ability on negating movement restrictions or forcing opposing units to forfeit their defense bonuses.

    ■ Bushi (6/1/40) Swordsman
    ■ Cartographer (4/2/40) Explorer
    ■ Koutetsukan (2/2/50) Galley
    ■ Horse Archer (6/2/50)
    ■ Ninja Spy (1/2/50) Spy
    ■ Shugenja (5/1/60)
    ■ Siege Engine (5/1/50) Catapult
    ■ Sohei (4/2/35)

    Medieval & Renaissance Eras
    Atakebune are some of the largest and most fearsome naval warships in existence. They comprise part of the Mantis fleet.

    Light and Heavy Infantry are bread and butter troops, either Ashigaru or Bushi units. Light and Heavy Cavalry just the same but mounted. (These units’ power may get scaled down and their cost cheapened.)

    Longbowman may get reworded here. I envision some UU’s using this as a template.

    Various Samurai UU’s will be using the Samurai template, basically almost identical to the Japanese UU.

    Sengokobune are large cargo ships that are more powerful than standard Kobune ships.

    ■ Atakebune (8/4/90) Frigate
    ■ Heavy Cavalry (10/2/80) Knight
    ■ Heavy Infantry (7/1/55)
    ■ Kobune (3/3/60) Caravel
    ■ Light Cavalry (7/2/60)
    ■ Light Infantry (5/1/35)
    ■ Longbowman (6/1/50)
    ■ Pikeman (6/1/60)
    ■ Samurai (8/1/70)
    ■ Sengokobune (4/4/80) Galleon
    ■ Trebuchet (4/1/80)


    Don’t forget: There will be stronger units than these, in the form of Unique Units for the various clans. For example, Battle Maidens could be 12/2/100. A Dragon Kensei could have a strength higher than 10. Daidoji Bodyguards could have extra defensive promotions automatically.


    So, am I missing something?
     
  19. ancestral

    ancestral Warlord

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    In this post, I’ll be talking about the Crab Clan.

    Crab Clan
    If any samurai in the Empire is asked who is the strongest of all the clans, most would answer the Crab Clan, even if grudgingly. The Crab are the line of defense that protects Rokugan from the legions of demons spawned deep within the Shadowlands. The clan’s founder Hida, son of the heavens, chose to take his followers and create the first line of defense against an invasion of evil that could very well destroy his brother’s empire. The harsh environment and a near-constant state of war have forged the Crab into a defensive fighting force unlike any other in the world.

    Starting Techs
    ■ Fishing
    ■ Mining
    ■ Wheel

    Leaders
    All Crab leaders, for now, are Aggressive, Industrious, and Protective.
    ■ Hida
    ■ Hida Kisada
    ■ Hida Kuon

    Unique Units
    ■ Avenger (6/1/35; same as Vulture) Berserker
    ■ Hida Elite Guard (3/1/25; same as Bowman) Archer
    ■ Shadow Scout (3/2/30 +100% vs. Animals, +100% vs. Barbarians) Scout
    ■ Stone Breaker (5/1/50; same as Hwacha) Siege Engine (Catapult)
    ■ Witch Hunter (6/1/50 1-2 First Strikes, +25% City Defense, +100% vs. Barbarians) Longbowman

    Unique Buildings
    ■ Engineering Academy (same as Mint) Forge
    ■ Citadel Castle

    Naturally, this is all subject to change. However, this gives a good footing on how the Crab Clan will progress into the game.
     
  20. 4lexander

    4lexander Warlord

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    It is a very promising project :thumbsup:

    I didn't have heard about L5R before, but it is amazing.

    Can't wait to play this on my Civ IV. ;)
     

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