Lack of editor

[Chieftess]

Techincally, there is an editor. Notepad. You can edit XML, Python, soon SDK, and even worldbuilder maps with lowly notepad. For making maps, you need, I believe, 5 images now, and run a python script. But... you can simply save a game in Worldbuilder, save the worldbuilder save, and then edit that file in notepad (i.e., to add extra civs, etc.). You can then edit the map again in worldbuilder as you see fit.

 

[eldar]

After actually getting the game, and looking at the various XML schema, I may feel inclined to come up with an editor to help non-XML-literate peeps out (or even myself, as editing it by hand can lead to mistakes, and is quite tedious).

This all depends upon me getting hold of a copy of C#.NET or VB.NET I can use at home.

 

[Liquid-Fire]

if you want a editor just use the home version of XMLSPY, which i believe is what they used for civilization 4 in the first place.

 

[Zany]

When I heard Civ IV was coming out, aiming at moddabilitiy, I immediately thought it would include a true scenario editor in which you can change the rules and create a real mod, civilopedia entries and everything. I hated having to go into 5 text files to get something to work, but now it is even worse! And this "powerful" world builder is a load of crap. You have to bleeping start a game to edit the map?!

That I hate the most about Civ IV. If a damn SCENARIO editor is not included in the first expansion pack, I will just give up on Civ IV and wait for Civ V.

 

[Armed_Maniac]

This is communist, a pox on Firaxis!

What is that supposed to mean...

 

[warpstorm]

LiquidFire has it right. XMLSpy is a wonderful editor that makes editing these files a snap. Try it before moaning. It is what the dev team used to make their scenarios.

 

[mayonaise]

I remember when people whined about the civ3 editor... things never change. html/xml is probably thee easiest script language to learn. Creating xml and python files is going to be alot more flexable than the 'missed' civ3 editor ever was.

If you can't understand xml, then give up now. You will never understand a real programming language.

what you dont seem to understand is that i'd argue the majority of "modders" aren't hardcores and dont want to learn programming languages. never did. many of us dont have tons of free time to devote to this. we want to pop into a nice and easy, even if simplified, editor and customize the game a little to suit our tastes. maybe tweak up an earth map and put a few civs in new spots for some interesting what ifs, or even create a new map instead of playing random yet repetitively similar maps all the time. im happy thats it very customizable, but would it have been too much to ask for a simplified world builder to have been included for tweaking the easy stuff, and the xml etc. for the "advanced" stuff?

and have you actually used the included world editor? it takes a minute to change EACH TILE.

 

[Jon Shafer]

As Weasel Op has pointed out above, it's possible to actually make your own Civ 4 map editor with enough Python knowledge. It would be quite an undertaking but I've already done so sort of with my BMP to WBS Converter.

 

[Zurai]

and have you actually used the included world editor? it takes a minute to change EACH TILE.

Not on my machine it doesn't. I havn't noticed any slowdown at all in relation to the worldbuilder.

 

[DJ Bonebraker]

I personally am waiting until some kind of editor comes out before I buy Civ IV (well that and at least the first expansion pack is released), not because i find XML eidting and even Python scripting that hard, it's just a matter of limited time. As it currently stands, in the time it would take to completely change a civ in this game using Notepad to edit .py and .xml files, I could build, texture, animate and render a complete Civ III unit, therefore I don't consider this pursuit worth my time (not to mention that I find typing lines and lines of text just to change one or two minor things to be incredibly boring).

Therefore I say bring in some kind of editor (or at least some programs that would streamline the python scripting and xml editing as well as make them less tedious).

 

[drekmonger]

what you dont seem to understand is that i'd argue the majority of "modders" aren't hardcores and dont want to learn programming languages.

and have you actually used the included world editor? it takes a minute to change EACH TILE.

First off, the world editor works just fine on my machine. The problem is with your box.

Second, if it's a question of power over ease of use, I'll take power. It will mean a lot of really cool mods down the pipeline....mind boggling stuff that you wouldn't even think possible, and certainly impossible under the gimped Civ3.

Anyway, I don't understand why you are so intimidated by XML markups. I can understand python might be a little scary, but XML? Please. I've taught fourth graders how to make a webpage in notepad, same concept. XML IS NOT A PROGRAMMING LANGUAGE. For Civ4's purposes, it's just a slightly clunkier way of expressing: This variable=This value.

Therefore I say bring in some kind of editor (or at least some programs that would streamline the python scripting and xml editing as well as make them less tedious).

There's already a metric buttload of XML editors. Google. I doubt there'll ever be an automagic python scripter...

 

[DJ Bonebraker]

Yes, I just confirmed that my favorite HTML editor (Micro$oft FrontPage) should be able to edit XML just fine....

As for the Python scripting, I guess I'll just have to buy a "Python for Dummies" book once I start modding Civ IV (sometime in the fairly distant future)

 

[WildWeazel]

Don't bother buying a book, just read GBM's tutorial. It's amazingly simple and easy.

metric buttload... I'll have to write that one down....

 

[DJ Bonebraker]

Don't bother buying a book, just read GBM's tutorial. It's amazingly simple and easy.

metric buttload... I'll have to write that one down....

Well, Poser 5 uses Python scripts, so I guess I could just try and h4x0r theirs just to get a feel for it (and come up with a script for exporting Poser models to .nif format, maybe (yeah right!)).

Yeah, I liked that "Metric Buttload" too. The question is whether it is more or less than a Standard Buttload, though......

 

[WildWeazel]

(and come up with a script for exporting Poser models to .nif format, maybe (yeah right!)).

You would be revered as a god.

 

[NateDawgNY]

XMLSpy is a wonderful editor that makes editing these files a snap

XMLSpy looks good, but can you recommend any decent XML editors (other than notepad) that are available for free?

EDIT: I did some digging and found out that XML SPY offers a free Home Edition.

 

[Marla_Singer]

I've opened the World Builder in Civ4. I guess it's thought as the cheat mode in Civ2.

I guess it's because of my limited computer (processor of 1.3 GHz, video card of 64 mb, 832 mb of RAM) but the World Builder is insanely slow for me. It's almost impossible to change things in a big scale.

If Firaxis could hear me, I would propose them to create an editor as in Civ3, which is outside the game (a second program). This editor doesn't need to be in 3D... it could be in 2d with a grid like in the other Civ games. And once saved it would be translated into 3d. After all a map is just a grid, it doesn't need 3d.

That simple thing, a map editor in 2d, would make us at least able to build scenarios. That would be great !

 

[Jon Shafer]

There basically is one already - my BMPConvert utility. It's what I've used to make a number of maps and what Rhye used to make his Earth map.

 

[Marla_Singer]

There basically is one already - my BMPConvert utility. It's what I've used to make a number of maps and what Rhye used to make his Earth map.

Yeah indeed. I was thinking about this program while writing my post... and that's why I've thought it could be possible to build such an editor in 2d.

Of course, your utility is great and is actually the only system which can work to create maps currently (on slow computer as mine). But in talking about an editor, I've thought about something more evolved. An editor where we could place cities, units, tile improvements, where we could edit the cities and the units. Actually something like the Civ3 editor.

But the key element in this I think is that the editor should be in 2d in order to save memory. If Firaxis is currently thinking about adding an editor, it should be something in 2d... otherwise only a very small community will be able to edit the game. And if I've understood it well, Firaxis wants Civ4 to be the most "moddable" game in the world. If they really want so, it must be easier to edit it... or the diversity of mods will never reached the levels of Civ3, or even Civ2.

 

[Flying Couch]

What is that supposed to mean...

In answer to Armed Mechanic, "Communist" is just a negative term that's somehow found its way into my vocabulary, and a pox is a disease

Sorry I'm not really talking about new editors in 2d