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Lahore / Nihang is even MORE OP than Gran Colombia

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by tedhebert, Jun 8, 2020.

  1. Kwami

    Kwami Emperor

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    Only if you've already saved up a lot of Faith, which generally means that you're later into the game and also might need a lot of envoys to get that suzerain. And, you'll lose the +10 CS promotion if you don't keep the suzerain.
     
  2. Mr. Shadows

    Mr. Shadows Nomad of the time streams

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    I just checked and with the Theocracy bonus musketmen are 405 Faith each. Nihang's (with armory) are the same combat strength at less than half the price. It gets even sillier once you build a Military Academy.
     
  3. Deadly Dog

    Deadly Dog Warlord

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    Price list with Theocracy discount, epic speed (so +50% on standard speed):
    Spoiler :
    Nihang price list.jpg
     
  4. tedhebert

    tedhebert Emperor

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    And that's without even counting that muskets need niter !
     
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  5. Kwami

    Kwami Emperor

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    But you can also build Musketmen with gold or production, or you can upgrade into them from Swordsmen. You also don't have to discover and maintain suzerainity of a particular city state. Musketmen also get a better promotion tree, a bonus to anti-cavalry units, and benefit from siege support equipment.

    I feel like you're all focusing on the faith cost and ignoring everything else that matters.
     
  6. Civ Chemist

    Civ Chemist Chieftain

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    I haven't had the chance to use them yet, so I have some questions:
    1. From previous comments in this thread it seems they don't benefit from siege suppport units. Does anyone know if they benefit from oligarchy and/or great generals? I know that before NFP warrior monks would not benefit from them, but I don't know if this has been changed since then. If not, then Nihangs would lose a potential +9 CS and +1 movement compared to other mele units. And if they do benefit from great generals, which era does the general have to be from?
    2. From the wiki it seems that you just have to build a single encampment building in your empire and you can purchase the most advanced Nihang in any of your cities. Is that correct, or do they have to be purchased in cities with the appropriate encampment buildings?
    3. Is it possible to upgrade them once you get the next encampment building? Or are they even automatically upgraded with each new building?
     
  7. Lily_Lancer

    Lily_Lancer Deity

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    The Macedon UB doesn't add strength to Nihang, Macedon may be the only Civ where Nihangs are almost totally useless.
     
  8. tedhebert

    tedhebert Emperor

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    1- Honestly don't know... would have to go back and load a save from that game... if I get around to it, I,ll get back to you.
    2- You need only ONE encampment empirewise
    3- They automatically upgrade when you build the first of the related buildings in an encampment. And they upgrade free of charge
     
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  9. Kwami

    Kwami Emperor

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    That sounds like a bug to me. I hope that they fix it.
     
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  10. tedhebert

    tedhebert Emperor

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    interesting. Thx for the info
     
  11. wesplaysciv

    wesplaysciv Chieftain

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    Sounds like a bug, wonder if the Mongolia UB works properly
     
  12. Kwami

    Kwami Emperor

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    The Ordu is a Stable replacement, so it's not relevant here. Only the Barracks boosts the Nihang.

    Or, well, that's what the Civilopedia says, anyway. I haven't actually tried to boost them with a Stable.
     
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  13. playshogi

    playshogi Emperor

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    Do existing Nihang get a combat boost when a barracks is first constructed?
     
  14. AriaLyric

    AriaLyric Chieftain

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    I can confirm that Nihang get bonuses from Great Generals, and they count as eraless, meaning that any Great General at all will boost them.

    Yes, as soon as you have a Barracks somewhere in your empire, all your Nihang automatically get the +15 combat strength from a Barracks building. Same goes for Armory and Military Academy

    Also, I know that people have confirmed here that Nihang don't benefit from siege support units, but can someone confirm whether or not they get the melee combat bonus against anticavalry? I could've sworn they do... but I might be wrong
     
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  15. Laurana Kanan

    Laurana Kanan Don’t underestimate who I am.

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    Because they have the CLASS_MELEE & CLASS_ALL_ERAS tags. And, actually any ability that is already attached to CLASS_MELEE will work for the Nihang.
    For siege support units since the modifier's set-up for PromotionClass, you'd need to either add new modifiers with the argument PROMOTION_CLASS_NIHANG, or change the Name for the modifier argument from PromotionClass to Tag, and use CLASS_MELEE. (Might be an unintended consequence with the latter option, though.)
    Yes.
     
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  16. CoconutTank

    CoconutTank Unapologetic Warmonger Supporter

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    I'm not sure how much this factors into how desirable Nihangs are for most folks, but I don't think military city state bonuses are particularly enticing. Hard building military units is not great, because that means the city is taking longer to give bigger yields, and having a bunch of low yield cities overall from conquering and little building doesn't seem like a working long term strategy.

    If I'm getting suzerain of a CS of any other type, I'm getting their unique bonus on top of a yield bonus that's going to be more consistently relevant and more likely to apply across my empire. Going 6 envoys deep on a scientific or trade CS sounds fine to me, and I can justify investing more envoys for a CS like Bologna, Geneva or Taruga. Relative to those options, investing more than 3 envoys for Lahore seems like a bad idea.

    Nihangs being bought with faith is great, but I'd rather get the Grand Master's Chapel and put envoys into other CSs instead.
     
  17. tedhebert

    tedhebert Emperor

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    Understand what you're saying but... the problem
    is not with faith buying a military unit... it's buying one that is so strong for so cheap a price... 200 faith for a 85+ strength unit is simply ridiculous
     
  18. JesseS

    JesseS Warlord

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    It is weird that Nihangs are the only thing in the game that escalate in power (automatically) while not escalating in cost. I expect this will probably change in a future balance patch.
     
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  19. DWilson

    DWilson Where am I? What turn is it?

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    I hope it doesn't change too significantly. The potency of the low cost is one of the reasons Lahore is so great. It would be easy to nerf into low to mid tier.
     
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  20. CoconutTank

    CoconutTank Unapologetic Warmonger Supporter

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    Faith buying a military unit is not the only thing I mentioned. One can't get Nihangs without having suzerainty of Lahore, and arguably suzerainty of most other city states is more worthwhile. Consider how likely one is to have a Campus, a Commercial Hub, or a Harbor in a city instead of an Encampment, then repeat that check per city. I'll agree that Nihangs are very cost efficient, but I think that's compensating for military city state bonuses being less desirable than other city state bonuses.

    A quick example, but if one had a choice of suzerainty of Geneva, Zanzibar, Brussels or Lahore... how often would one want suzerainty of Lahore over the others?
     

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