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Landsknecht the new Uber unit?

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by MisterBarca, Jun 24, 2007.

  1. MisterBarca

    MisterBarca Chieftain

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    This unit, which is a replacement for Pikemen, will be even with Macemen (strength 6 plus 100 percent v. melee V. strength 8 plus 50 percent v. melee), while still having the advantage against Knights. In other words, Landsknechts will have no counter units.

    Are they the new Praetorians?
     
  2. Zoolooman

    Zoolooman Space, Time, Travel

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    I spy a man who's never used crossbowmen.
     
  3. Aramazd

    Aramazd Chieftain

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    Crossbowman seem like they could defeat a Landsknechts, but I don't know how viable that would be as I rarely use crossbowmen.
     
  4. Dom Pedro II

    Dom Pedro II Modder For Life

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    Looks like you're going to start then, doesn't it? At least when warring against the HRE.
     
  5. Bongo-Bongo

    Bongo-Bongo The Master

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    It has two weakness. Crossbows will have little trouble against them, and as the AI generally uses archery units to defend cities, they will have trouble getting past the Longbowman. Landsknecht are a very strong unit, but they are not the uber unit many think.
     
  6. Thedrin

    Thedrin Chieftain

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    A very good unit - based on the available stats I suspect it will be my favourite of the new unique units - but not overpowered. It won't be a good city raider and it is vulnerable in the field to crossbows. It's main advantage is that it performs the field duties of both a pikeman and a crossbowman. This means that the HRE is less likely to lose units performing these duties due to the rock-paper-scissors combat system, e.g. unlike a pikeman, an attacking landsknecht does not have to fear a maceman when attacking a stack. More field victories for less hammers (you don't have to replace as many landsknecht as you do pikemen). The added XP combines well with Charlemagne's imperialistic trait.
     
  7. MisterBarca

    MisterBarca Chieftain

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    LOL, I did forget about Crossbows. I haven't played in a year, so I am getting back into it. Be kind :lol:
     
  8. Phoenix1595

    Phoenix1595 Tsarevich

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    A good assessment. We're not looking at the birth of a new praet, but I suspect the landsknecht detractors are simply anti-HRE folks in general. These units will hold their own, but like most UUs, they have an exploitable weakness to keep the game balanced.
     
  9. Thedrin

    Thedrin Chieftain

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    That it is not a good city raider will make it unpopular in some quarters.
     
  10. Pangur Bán

    Pangur Bán Good Guy / Deviant (depending on context)

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    This unit may be good in the field in multiplayer, but against the AI (who likes to cower in his own cities) will serve little function save for the odd stack anti-horse unit and city anti-pillaging unit. In the unlikely event that I were to play the silly HRE civ, I'd prolly never built/upgrade more than a few. Still, it may make a pretty little flavour unit for the German civ when the HRE is modded into oblivion by sensible people.
     
  11. bonafide11

    bonafide11 Worker

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    It's a really good unit, but it's not the best in the game by any means. It's city attack against Longbowmen will be considerably worse than Macemen...

    The HRE building, on the other hand, is going to be game breaking!
     
  12. Thedrin

    Thedrin Chieftain

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    Sure about that? The Zulu ikhanda and courthouse combination reduce maintenance by 70% at a cost of just 30 extra hammers and the extra 20% is available a fair bit earlier. The IGN preview listing the new unique units and buildings made no mention of increased production costs for any of these unique elements (including the cataphract) so it's not impossible that the Rathaus is more expensive than a normal courthouse.
     
  13. phantom59

    phantom59 setteler

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    The ideal stack would be landerdontevenwanttotrytospell and knights
     
  14. Scaramanga

    Scaramanga Chieftain

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    So landsknechts and "ridders" perhaps? ;)

    EDIT: Personally I was hoping for a Holy Hand Grenadier UU (+500% vs. rabbits).
     
  15. ohcrapitsnico

    ohcrapitsnico Chieftain

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    Ritters would be real nice, but I don't think Firaxis is going to get that detailed.:)
     
  16. volfan37132

    volfan37132 Chieftain

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    The landsknecht is by no means invincible. Crossbowmen will eat
    them for lunch. Crossbowmen are very under used. The AI almost
    never builds them. If the AI would use crossbowmen or axemen
    to defend against praetorians instead of longbows then praetorians
    would not be so invincible either. See my avatar? :D
     
  17. GIR

    GIR It'sNotStupidIt'sAdvanced

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    lol
    lol^2

    I think the Landsknecht is a nice Unit but it's far away from being a ÜBER Unit.
    Uber Units have to be kick ass city riders and the HRE UU is more a defense Unit.

    Unfortunately they didn't include Tempelritter (Knights Templar) :sad:
     
  18. MisterBarca

    MisterBarca Chieftain

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    Gir, I haven't played in a year or so, and it seems like I've forgotten a lot of the game mechanics. But the new expansion is inspiring me to play the game again.
     
  19. marioflag

    marioflag History Addict

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    No.They are powerful though.Pretorians have as counter until Macemen only Axeman which is even less powerful than Praetorian in melee combat.
    Landschnekt are really good because you can use them both as Pikeman and Maceman so you have 2 units in 1 but they are owned by Crossbowman and Maceman is as strong as Landschnekt in melee combat.
    So is it the best new UU?Yes
    Is it as powerful as Praetorians?Not even remotely
     
  20. Thedrin

    Thedrin Chieftain

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    Landsknecht is stronger than a maceman in combat. If the landsknecht attacks then the relative strengths will be 6 and 5.33 in favour of the landsknecht. If the maceman attacks the relative strengths will be 9 and 8 in favour of the landsknecht. Against all contemporary units except the crossbow - against pikemen, macemen, longbowmen, and knights - the landsknecht is better than the maceman. The maceman's two advantages are that it dies less easily against crossbows (though is still inferior to crossbows) and makes for a much better city raider.
     

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