Language translations for leader sayings
- Thread starter Morningcalm
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Also this "l" is always an L in this transliteration to keep consistency and i's are always lowercase.
Naokaukodem
Millenary King
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Why devs didn't provided optional subtitles... this is beyond myself. And why don't they all speak english ? All this work of research... for something I never cared about.
Teproc
King
Well, good for you, and congrats on your open mind.
Louis XXIV
Le Roi Soleil
subtitles would be stupid because they'll make the dialog seem as repetitive as it really is and would lose the ability to conveigh messages flexibly depending on correct.
There's absolutely no point having them speak English. The languages are for flavor. Otherwise, they could just use subtitles without any voice actors.
There's absolutely no point having them speak English. The languages are for flavor. Otherwise, they could just use subtitles without any voice actors.
Naokaukodem
Millenary King
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So what is the point of this topic ?
No, I think that as repetitive as the speaches seem to be for you, subtitles would have interested a lot of people.
Don't undertand that.
Ok boy.
So it's perfect as it is we live in a perfect world. I want to say... good for you boy...
Naokaukodem
Millenary King
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It has nothing to do with not having an open mind. It's even all the contrary. Precisely I have an open mind, that's why I think that what leaders say should be subtitled. If I never got interested in what they were saying, it's because I didn't understand it, it was just rumble that I associated with the madness of the behavior of silly puppets. (oh for God's sake Montezuma, STFU !) It could have been interesting... if only we cared about.
Louis XXIV
Le Roi Soleil
So what is the point of this topic ?
No, I think that as repetitive as the speaches seem to be for you, subtitles would have interested a lot of people.
Let's use Washington as an example because you can already understand what he says. Let's assume they now just translate or transcribe what the voice actor says, instead of displaying a message independent of the speech. Therefore, instead of getting useful information like "don't spy on me," Washington will merely tell you that you mistook his love of peace for weakness. That's not very helpful.
Or let's use a different example. Nebuchadnezzar's text at the bottom of the screen portrays a king descending into madness. But his speech is usually one word sentences (my guess is the voice actor didn't grow up speaking Akkadian
). So rather than quotes like "are you a figment of my imagination," you'll just get something closer to "hello." I'm not sure why that'll be better. As for having them speak English? What does that actually do? It no longer adds flavor. It increases the chance that you'll find what they say repetitive and annoying because you can understand it, and it's just an unnecessary expense? Why have them speak English instead of just have written English like in previous civ games?
Naokaukodem
Millenary King
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Let's use Washington as an example because you can already understand what he says. Let's assume they now just translate or transcribe what the voice actor says, instead of displaying a message independent of the speech. Therefore, instead of getting useful information like "don't spy on me," Washington will merely tell you that you mistook his love of peace for weakness. That's not very helpful.
Or let's use a different example. Nebuchadnezzar's text at the bottom of the screen portrays a king descending into madness. But his speech is usually one word sentences (my guess is the voice actor didn't grow up speaking Akkadian
As for having them speak English? What does that actually do? It no longer adds flavor. It increases the chance that you'll find what they say repetitive and annoying because you can understand it, and it's just an unnecessary expense? Why have them speak English instead of just have written English like in previous civ games?
Well, the fact that their speech is schizophrenic is questionnable in the first place. Shouldn't they say one thing at a time ? It's a design choice, but nothing prevents to have schizophrenic but intelligible speaches. Like, just like in the video posted here, having two subtitles, the one for "gameplay", the other one for flavor. It's only one possible suggestion among others, even if i would prefer them to have one speach at a time, tied to gameplay preferably, like it seems to be the case for peace declarations.
As to flavor, It doesn't add any if we can't understand them. It makes the leaders purely annoying with all their grandiloquent gesticulations out of the topic, as if we hadn't enough reasons to hate them all as it is.
You could say that foreign languages have a charm even if you don't understand them, I would agree except that in the case of Civ, I just do not even pay attention, probably because the leaders take an annoying tone, or an official one that particularly lacks charm. For example, I like hearing chinese talking in the street, but the chinese leader I just want smash her face because of her intonation. I like japanese too, african languages, etc... in reality, but in Civ this is just out of place. Probably because I know that what they say is offensive, and vastly due to their rigourous intonation, partly due the developers' zeal.
About them speaking english, indeed I don't care, because I don't understand speaked english more than chinese. (a little more, granted) So anyway subtitles would be necessary for me. Or French voice acting, but I stop dreaming.
All this is a dramatic proof of futile zeal from the developers. Did they want a prize for it ? It's beyond me that they did so many efforts in order to match the real languages of all those nations, instead of working on the gameplay conception, like making AI intentions matching with their speaches and not looking for gameplay systems that magnificate this like denounciations, that are useless excepted in annoying the player greatly.
This I disagree. It just wouldn't make sense for Alexander to speak English. It's like having Washington speaking French.
Naokaukodem
Millenary King
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You may not be accustomed to it in your galaxy far far away, but there's something called "translation", and in the case of talks, "adaptation", we see it everyday in France particularly with american movies, and it wroks pretty well.
I even already saw the term "french" being employed in place of the term "english" or else, because the original works were english or else and that the context needed something like that. (I.E. "you don't speak english correctly" replaced by "you don't speak french correctly". But I saw it also for less obvious needs)
All that to say that I don't think it's offending to see people speak a language we understand, I think it is the other way around.
Louis XXIV
Le Roi Soleil
First off, I'm not sure there's a contradiction between flavor and being annoyed. Second, there absolutely is flavor. It lets you experience a bit of their culture you wouldn't experience otherwise. Just like the city list lets you feel like it's an empire of that civilization and the last lets you see their clothing, scenery, and name of one of their leaders. If you find it annoying, it's either on you or a problem with voice actors/directing. It's not a comment on the language that is spoken.
But either way, I fail to see why it would make sense to have them speak the same language that's not their own. Why go to the bother of hiring voice actors?
@naokaukodem
I really don't see what's the big deal. You don't like the leaders talking? You just want to see the subtitles. Go to your settings and turn it off. Maybe subtitles would've been nice, but really since they aren't there, I don't see the point of making a big stink about it. If you don't care for it, then good for you, sir. Personally I do, and I can't speak for anybody else, but I'd say I'm pretty sure there is other people who's liking it the same as me do. They gave you the option for a reason.
I really don't see what's the big deal. You don't like the leaders talking? You just want to see the subtitles. Go to your settings and turn it off. Maybe subtitles would've been nice, but really since they aren't there, I don't see the point of making a big stink about it. If you don't care for it, then good for you, sir. Personally I do, and I can't speak for anybody else, but I'd say I'm pretty sure there is other people who's liking it the same as me do. They gave you the option for a reason.
But I like that the leaders are speaking in their own languages; It's cool hearing Ramkhamhaeng call me an arrogant git, Enrico offering his proposals like an salesman, or having Gustav threaten me with his cavalry.
It really helps add flavor IMHO.
It really helps add flavor IMHO.
Sir Parker II
Warlord
I have to agree that the leaders own languages should be spoken. I quite enjoy the glimpse into the civ's culture that is given with leader screens, and the language is part of that.
George Abitbol
Prince
I don't understand you... Leaders speaking their native language is a huge plus in this kind of game. Serioulsy, imagine Ramses or the Siamese king-I-can't-spell speaking in English? I would call a such game a brain-less game.
About the movies: yes, in France we translate (dubb?) almost all the foreign movies. And no, it doesn't work very well. Personnaly I hate it, all the movies, Tv shows, etc I can watch are in original version with subtitles.
Why? Because I just can't imagine a American character speaking with a parisian slang accent. In the translation, you lose almost all the essence of the movie, and all the works made by the actors.
Even if the movie is in russian, siamese, hungarian, I would watch it with subtitles. Last time I saw "A touch of sin" in chinese in original version. Even if I didn't understand a single word, I enjoyed it. A chinese guy speaking french because I'm lazy to open my mind to other culture? Non merci.
With the translation, you erase a huge part of the work, and it doesn't make the audience smarter. Think about one thing: the countries that translate their movies (France, Italy, Spain for exemple) are very bad speaking foreign languages. But countries where films are shown with subtitles have their people that can handle few languages
Naokaukodem
Millenary King
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First : flavor is to make things nice. If you feel annoyed, the flavor doesn't do its job. Second, as you don't understand what they say, I fail to see the added flavor, everybody is agree to say that something we don't understand is annoying. Do you like people speaking German between themselves when you are on a Civ5 multiplayer lobby ? It's the same. People that rants senselessly are just annoying. It's a fact. I'm saying also that foreign languages even if not understood can have a charm, however the charm fades away pretty quickly in Civ5, you only see a couple of inintelligible syllables, there no direction as to put the characters in everyday life scenery, or the direction fails miserably, whereas you have to understand what they say because they are official figures and you MUST understand what they say. Why states chiefs bring with them translators when they go in foreign countries ? It's the same here. Do state chiefs go into foreign countries just to hear the singing accents of the locals ? No. They have tounderstand what they say. It's key. Plus the AI insults you constantly, is mean, and what they say is annoying, the more when you can't send them back their insults. And you know that whatever kind things they could say, it's a lie, considering their behavior in the game, declaring war because you are weak or too close of them while they do not hesitate to set up close to you. They are douche bags. It's a fact. And the fact that you don't understand what they say is like "good, talk all what you want, i just don't care".
First off I didn't know we could turn it off, second it's not really the point. The point is that the developers spent so much time for something I don't care.
Oh because you understand what they say ? You must speak a ton of languages. Or preferably, you followed this topic so you know what they say. Why not include subtitles directly in the game then ? Not that i really care, but that way their efforts could have been visible at least. In the state it's pure nonsense.
People seem to like every single aspect of their favoured game one criticizes. It's nearly funny.
Brainless ? Oh, because you are doing the effort to truly understand what they say on your own maybe, you learn any language without learning the tongues ? Impressive.
Don't worry, translation have become an art. They know what they do. It's fashion to criticize dubbing, especially in video games. But it's just elitism. It's very simple in fact : while you read the subtitles, you don't see the action. It's particularly true in games like GTA, ok the talkings are fun and all that, but you don't understand what is so intersting if you don't read the subtitles, if you do you crach your car. GTA would benefit greatly of dubbing. It's a little the same with Civ5 : while you read the sentences bottom, you couldn't read the subtitles, so dubbing would do a good job here.
Teproc
King
It's fashionable to criticize dubbing because dubbing sucks. This isn't really the question at play, but if you're looking at a dubbed movie, the performances are completely ruined by it. You wouldn't listen to foreign music dubbed, well it's the same with movie for me.
Subtitles distract from the action, that's true enough, but it's still better than dubbing.
Obviously this is a little off-topic, but I enjoy the flavor of having foreign languages in the game, and I would be pretty pissed if every leader spoke English, especially the ones that speak languages I understand. I think subtitles would be a fine addtion, in fact we already have them, it's just that they simply use stock phrases instead of translating what the leader is actually saying.
I would much, much rather hear Oda speak Japanese and not understand it, than having him speak English. It would take me out of the game if I heard that.
Subtitles distract from the action, that's true enough, but it's still better than dubbing.
Obviously this is a little off-topic, but I enjoy the flavor of having foreign languages in the game, and I would be pretty pissed if every leader spoke English, especially the ones that speak languages I understand. I think subtitles would be a fine addtion, in fact we already have them, it's just that they simply use stock phrases instead of translating what the leader is actually saying.
I would much, much rather hear Oda speak Japanese and not understand it, than having him speak English. It would take me out of the game if I heard that.
@ naukaokodem
As we have seen, there are lots of people who is appreciating this mark of flavor (and yes it is flavorful). It reminds me of a middle eastern folk tale I once heard, the moral of which is that you can't please everybody. http://www.worldstories.org.uk/stories/story/9-joha-and-his-donkey
Have your own opinion, but don't try to impose it on other people. And actually when I hear people talking in foreign languages I like to listen, even though I don't understand a word.
As we have seen, there are lots of people who is appreciating this mark of flavor (and yes it is flavorful). It reminds me of a middle eastern folk tale I once heard, the moral of which is that you can't please everybody. http://www.worldstories.org.uk/stories/story/9-joha-and-his-donkey
Have your own opinion, but don't try to impose it on other people. And actually when I hear people talking in foreign languages I like to listen, even though I don't understand a word.
