[R&F] Last 3 Civs (a little bit different approach)

Wielki Hegemon

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So far we were trying to figure out every new Civilization in expansion on a basis of leaks, geography, importance, era, last appearances or even a female leader probability.
But somehow we have missed a quite important thing. One, I think, very important for devs and at the end, quite important for us as well. Civilization mechanic, and main gameplay themes.

We can classify every civilization in a game into following categories.
TIER 1 Categories (win condition)
1. Conquer (ex. Macedonia)
2. Culture (ex. Greece)
3. Religion (ex. Spain)
4. Science (ex. Arabia)
TIER 2 Categories (rest)
5. Industry and Production (ex. Germany)
6. Title or resources bonuses (ex. Brazil)
7. Great Peoples (ex. Brazil)
8. Amenities (ex. Aztec)
9. Spies (ex. France)
10. Sea and fleet (ex. England)
11. Wonder building (ex. China)
12. City States (ex. Greece)
13. Economy and income (ex. Poland)
14. Trade Routes (ex. Egypt)
15. Expansion or Population Growth (ex. Rome)
16. Unique Mechanic (ex. Kongo)

End lately:
1. Governors
2. Golden Ages
3. Loyalty
4. Alliances
5. Emergencies

So where are we have empty slots now:
Conquer
India, Mongolia
Culture
[empty]
Religion
Georgia, [empty?]
Science
Korea
Industry and Production
The Netherlands [empty?]
Title or resources bonuses
[empty?] The Netherlands, Cree
Great Peoples
[empty]
Amenities
[empty]
Spies
[empty]
Sea and fleet
The Netherlands [empty?]
Wonder building
[empty]
City States
Georgia
Economy and income
[empty]
Trade Routes
Cree
Expansion or Population Growth
[empty]
Unique Mechanic
[empty]
Governors
Korea
Golden Ages
Georgia
Loyalty
The Netherlands
Alliances
[empty] Cree
Emergencies
[empty]

I think we lack
a) some strong Culture Civ
b) some strong production/growth-oriented one,
c) some connected to alliances and new emergency system,
d) maybe some "new Venice" (Civilization with some rulebreaking mechanic)
e) maybe strong commercial civ (with the new unique commercial district)



What're your thoughts?
 
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Morningcalm

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I think economy and culture are missing huge voids--bring on the Inca and Mali Empires!
 

Naktis

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For Culture , rennaisance Italy would fit perrrfectly. And also , continent wise South America is lacking , so Inca or someone else must be added soon.
 
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As much I want Mali, I would consider the Netherlands to be economy focused with the harbor and trade routes more than production based. Mali can be faith based as well.
 

IdiotStyle

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Maybe a new civ that can't interact with one of the new systems. Would be like the congo/venice type of civ we can expect. Maybe a military civ that can't form alliances
 

Chapel

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For a culture civ in South America I kind of like the Chimu personally. That would cover both a geographic area that is needed and a "missing" victory type for a civ.
 

Lord Lakely

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These are a couple of options from the top of my head.

Possible Commercial Civs: Ottomans (Bazaar UD), Inca (notorious for their wealth), Malinese (also notorious for their wealth)

Possible Culture/GP Civs: Celts, Ashanti, Italians (cradle of the renaissance), Inca again (mountain adjecency bonuses? May build hill wonders on Mountain tiles?), Burmese (known for their beautiful Golden temples, and that geographical area has no Civs with Cultural bonuses yet), Ethiopia (noone can argue against those Stele)

Possible Naval Civs: Ottomans (Corsairs), Byzantines (Dromons), Morocco/Berbers (again, Corsairs)

Possible Land Army Civs: Zulu (Ikhanda, basically the Civ equivalent of the Zerg), Celts (Fanatics/Highlanders/Gallowglasses), Ashanti again or Benin (region known for amazon warriors), Ethiopia again (defensive boost based on the Battle of Adwa)

Possible Amenities Civs: Ottomans again (Harems, Hammams), Venice or Genoa (extra amenities from resources they import? or from trade routes to cities with luxuries in range?)

Possible Production Civs: Ottomans again (Unit recruitment bonus based on the Devshirme or Blood Tax), Inca (Terrace Farm yield),

Possible Growth Civs: Inca (again, Terrace Farm). Ashanti (they have a specific harvesting festival)

Possible Government Civs: Ashanti (a slam dunk in this case with their Golden Stool), Austria (Habsburg Hegemony)

Possible Emergency Boosts: Ethiopia (Treaty of Wuchale, which due to an intentional(?) mistranslation tricked the Ethiopians into becoming an Italian protectorate and led to a Colonial War between Italy and Ethiopia)
 

dc1215

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I think the most likely remaining civs are Incans, Ottomans, Italy, Celts, Zulu, Mali. Second tier I think would be Austria, Sweden, Iroquois or another NA civ, Ethiopia. I feel as though the Byzantines have been essentially ruled out.

Just some guesses at possible foci:

Ottomans - Economy/trade, governors, city states, fleet, conquest, golden ages
Incans - Culture, trade, amenities, production/wonders, governors, housing, golden ages
Italy - culture, great people, city states, economy/trade, wonders, golden ages
Celts - Warfare, culture, loyalty, religion, defense
Zulu - Warfare, culture, religion, defense, amenities?
Mali - economy/trade, governors, faith, warfare, golden ages, desert?

As I was typing this I realized I think the moral of the story is there’s a million directions they can go with a civ...
 
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Both Inca and Ottomans could be all around focused. Inca can get mountain adjacency bonuses for districts it wouldn't normally get (Industrial Zone, Theater Square, Commercial Hub) like the Netherlands bonus along with a food focus as well. Ottomans can be cultural, economic, somewhat militaristic and scientific.
I already talked about Mali above with faith as well as science from trade routes, not to mention gold.
Zulu I can see really see as just a warfare Civ.
Celts the same with maybe faith/culture bonuses.
Italy would be a cultural and economic powerhouse (this one I don't see coming though).
 

dc1215

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Zulu I can see really see as just a warfare Civ.
Celts the same with maybe faith/culture bonuses.
Italy would be a cultural and economic powerhouse (this one I don't see coming though).

The fact that the Zulu are pretty one dementional is what makes me dubious that the leak is real. I think they’d want to go for more interesting with the expansion.

And I didn’t either on Italy... like at all. But the trailer has been pretty fortuitous so far and it boggles my mind that we don’t have any Italian city states. This has to be for a reason. While I didn’t approve of giving Italy the Greek treatment before I guess I’ve come around to it a bit (but more so I’m kind of tired of spending emotional capital on this stuff haha)
 
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And I didn’t either on Italy... like at all. But the trailer has been pretty fortuitous so far and it boggles my mind that we don’t have any Italian city states. This has to be for a reason. While I didn’t approve of giving Italy the Greek treatment before I guess I’ve come around to it a bit (but more so I’m kind of tired of spending emotional capital on this stuff haha)
I've been hoping for a Greek treatment of Italy even before Gorgo and alternate leaders were announced.
 

VermelhoRed

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Nice ideas, I think we can compound on this with some other known facts. Firaxis stated there would be two new unique districts, four new unique improvements and two new unique buildings. For the three remaining civs, we've got one that's going to have an unique district, and two that'll have unique improvements. Now, the improvements could be anything, but for the districts, there are only three possibilities:

1- The new unique district will be a Commercial Hub replacement
2- The new unique district will be an Encampment replacement
3- The new unique district will replace some district that already has an unique version from some other civ

I personally think the number 1 is far more likely than the others. They have clearly made a pattern of only replacing a district once so far, even when it would have made sense to have another (a ziggurat district would have made much more sense than an improvement, for example). And as for the Encampment, since they didn't give it to the Mongols, they're probably saving it for the Zulu, and I don't think both extremely aggressive civilizations would fit the same expansion. Thus I strongly believe the new unique district will be a Commercial Hub. With this in my mind, I searched for likely candidates to have one, and I think the most likely is the Inca Empire. Namely, the tambos, structures built on strategic crossroads to house officials and store supplies but at some point grew so large they couldn't be distinguished from towns. What do you guys think?
 
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And as for the Encampment, since they didn't give it to the Mongols, they're probably saving it for the Zulu, and I don't think both extremely aggressive civilizations would fit the same expansion. Thus I strongly believe the new unique district will be a Commercial Hub. With this in my mind, I searched for likely candidates to have one, and I think the most likely is the Inca Empire. Namely, the tambos, structures built on strategic crossroads to house officials and store supplies but at some point grew so large they couldn't be distinguished from towns. What do you guys think?
Tambos could easily be an improvement and they don't really fit the definition of what a commercial hub does. That looks like it would be a place to add housing and yield food and gold.
The consensus around here by many is that the Ottomans might get the bazaar. Mali is another option but I could see it getting something else.
I agree about the Zulu though.
 

krokobone

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I think we will get the Ottomans with a unique commercial hub (Bazaar) and an Italian city state (Venice or Florence most likely) as a culture-based civ. The third one should be the Inca with some kind of mountain-related tile improvement. This is what I'm hoping for at least. :)

I personally think the number 1 is far more likely than the others. They have clearly made a pattern of only replacing a district once so far, even when it would have made sense to have another (a ziggurat district would have made much more sense than an improvement, for example). And as for the Encampment, since they didn't give it to the Mongols, they're probably saving it for the Zulu, and I don't think both extremely aggressive civilizations would fit the same expansion. Thus I strongly believe the new unique district will be a Commercial Hub. With this in my mind, I searched for likely candidates to have one, and I think the most likely is the Inca Empire. Namely, the tambos, structures built on strategic crossroads to house officials and store supplies but at some point grew so large they couldn't be distinguished from towns. What do you guys think?

If we do get a Commercial Hub for the Inca, then Ottomans are most likely out of this expansion, so I'm hoping that's not the case.
 

VermelhoRed

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Guys, bazaars are not a bit more closely related to the Ottomans than to the whole rest of the Middle East, I really don't think they'd be the Ottoman UI, they'd even make more sense as an Arabian UI. The Ottomans could be in with some other more characteristic UI like the sebil.
 
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Guys, bazaars are not a bit more closely related to the Ottomans than to the whole rest of the Middle East, I really don't think they'd be the Ottoman UI, they'd even make more sense as an Arabian UI. The Ottomans could be in with some other more characteristic UI like the sebil.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Bazaar,_Istanbul, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spice_Bazaar
This is my reasoning. Plus the fact is that Arabia and Persia already got something.
 

Hakan-i Cihan

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Guys, bazaars are not a bit more closely related to the Ottomans than to the whole rest of the Middle East, I really don't think they'd be the Ottoman UI, they'd even make more sense as an Arabian UI. The Ottomans could be in with some other more characteristic UI like the sebil.
Though your reasoning is right, I prefer bazaar over sebils. Sebils seem a bit underwhelming for a unique building/improvement. Other possible uniques for this slot are kulliye, caravanserai and hammam.
 

Havendish

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Ottomans fit into several categories. They started out as aggressive (even ruthless) conquerors- which covers the Warmonger category.
Known to be spiritual/Religious - They fit in Religion category too.
After conquering a great and cultured empire weakened by centuries of almost non-stop warfare with Parthia/Sassanids, Arab Khalifates, Slavs, Bulgars (and several other tribes) as well within themselves (internal conflicts for the crown and over religious matters), namely the Eastern Roman Empire called Byzantium, the Turkic Ottomans developed greatly in the Economic, Cultural and Scientific areas as well, thus qualifying them in those categories. Also, to conquer Constantinople the needed to become better at Naval warfare as well, which they did, and this also qualifies them in the Naval/Seafaring category.

Byzantium also fits in several categories. Very Religious, Seafaring/Naval, Warlike, Great Empire/city builders, very Cultured tribe (drawing from 2 of the most famous cultures of the past: Rome and Greece (besides Mesopotamia, Egypt and China).
They, like Ottomans, have multiple Great Leaders to choose from (just not Theodora again!) as well as at least 3 excellent available UU's, namely Dromons-Greek Fire Ships, Cataphract heavy cavalry-Byzantine ones were the best I think, and the Axe wielding Varangian Guardsmen.

Overall, I'd be greatly disappointed if the Ottomans or the Byzantines are not added to the roster of playable Civs in Civilization 6.
 

Josephias

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The fixation in the Otomans having the Bazaar as a unique CH is not bad, but I think it is worth to mention that the Ottomans have never been portrayed as commercial in previous game incarnations, which might be an indicator CH will go to other civ, unless Firaxis changes their focus, which has been normally more militaristic.
(That could make them contenders for the unique encampment, altough I think in that case they would be more fitted for a Unique Arsenal, that cannot fit the current x-pack expectations).
 
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