In discussing Mine Fields as a building, I realized that there's a balance issue with late game naval units and combat. By late game, I'm talking about Atomic Era and maybe later. I say maybe because good feedback for Information Era is difficult to acquire. Note that the discussions here might not result in anything in upcoming patches since we are trying to go for gold for VP and the overhaul of late game navy might be too ambitious for that. However, I think it's a good idea to starting discussing because it takes time to flesh out ideas. First, we should look at the units. I believe that we need to figure out their strengths, weaknesses, roles in combat and their counters. Ideally, we have a diversity in our navy. However, there are certain issues as I'll state below. Battleship: Upgrades from: Cruiser Available at: Electronics Strengths: First ranged naval units with 2 Range and Indirect Fire. Both promotion lines are very useful and make Battleships quite threatening. In large enough numbers, they can take any coastal cities with relative ease. Requires Iron Resource. Weaknesses: Can be greatly weakened by the building, Mine Fields. Has no answer to air. Basically a glass cannon so attacks from any naval units with the capability to attack will hurt. Roles: 1. Support: Provide necessary support fire to whittle down the health of enemy naval units to gain an upper hand. 2. Naval Dominance: Devastate enemy navies and coastal cities in sufficient numbers if allowed to freely do what they excel at (attack from range and kept safe from enemy units). Counters: 1. Air units. Bombers can force Battleships to withdraw and thus slowing or even halting the naval invasion. 2. Submarines: These silent killers can be a rather big pain to deal with and, if going down Wolf Pack promotion, they can devastate Battleships. 3. Destroyers: Don't let these melee ships get close or your Battleships will have a hard time. Kiting against Destroyers is possible but this will force your ships to return to friendly territory to heal up afterwards. 4. Mine Fields: By forcing attacking ships to use more Movements, this building will slow down Battleships drastically and make it so they cannot attack and back out of the attack of enemy land ranged unit or city. 5. Other Battleships: Given the relatively low defense of this unit, other Battleships can ruin the day of a Battleship. Carrier: Upgrades from: N/A Available at: Computers Strengths: Can bring air units to support naval invasion of distant continent. Can intercept. Weaknesses: Weak against any unit that can attack it. Not enough Movement to outrun anything. Can only pick only one of the following: carry more air units, defend itself better or air interception. Losing the Carrier also costs you all of your air units stationed on it. Useless if you have no air units. Require Oil Resource (depends on the game and map). Roles: 1. Support: Allow air units support friendly navy despite being far from friendly cities. 2. Naval Dominance: In sufficient numbers and adequate protection, can dominate the seas relatively easily and even make amphibious assaults much easier. Counters: 1. Air units. Despite having interception, Carriers only have 1 per turn. If the enemy has air superiority, then it's easy for the enemy to force out all the interceptions so Bombers can sink Carriers.In addition, the air units on the Carriers are forced to attack or defend and not both. 2. Submarines: These silent killers can be a rather big pain to deal with and, if going down Wolf Pack promotion, they can devastate Carriers that lack any escorts. 3. Destroyers: Don't let these melee ships get close or your Carriers will be sunk. 4. Battleships: Given the relatively low defense of this unit, Battleships will force Carriers to return to port sooner. Destroyer: Upgrades from: Ironclad Available at: Rocketry Strengths: Have two viable promotion lines. They can either be defensively focused with Dreadnought promotion line or offensively focused with the Boarding Party promotion line. Can detect Submarines. Can intercept air units (though never 100% even with promotions, need confirmation). Good positioning can really pay off. Require Coal resource (might be a weakness in some maps). Weaknesses: Expends all Movements after an attack. Can get kited to a certain degree. Bad positioning is extremely punishing. To excel in air interception, will have to give up on Dreadnought and Boarding Party promotion line. Roles: 1. Meat Shield: Hold the front line while other units win the naval combat. 2. Flanker: With Boarding Party promotion line, Destroyers can quickly dispatch enemy units if used properly. 3. Defender: Since a Destroyer can attack while inside a city, Destroyers can help defend against enemy attacks if it gets to that point. Counters: 1. Air units. Despite having interception, Destroyers only have 1 per turn. If the enemy has air superiority, then it's easy for the enemy to force out all the interceptions so Bombers can force back or sink Destroyers. 2. Other Destroyers: Destroyers with the Boarding Party promotions will hit harder then Destroyers with Dreadnought promotions. Destroyers are not safer even with the extra health. 3. Mine Fields: While affected to a lesser degree than ranged naval units, this building does affect the Destroyers with Boarding Party promotions. Movement is what makes them so dangerous so naval combat near cities aren't advised. Instead, you probably need Battleships to shoot from afar to keep your Destroyers alive. 4. Battleships: If enemy Battleships are safe behind enemy Destroyers, then your Destroyers will feel the pain with all those ranged attack while unable to do anything. Submarine: Upgrades from: N/A Available at: Penicillin Strengths: Great for ambushes due to their concealment. Can actually hit pretty hard so a pack of them can be very dangerous to units that lack proper escorts. Weaknesses: Can be greatly weakened by the building, Mine Fields. Basically a glass cannon but more so than Battleships. Once concealment is gone, this unit is extremely vulnerable. 1 Range means they have to get close. Require Aluminum. Roles: 1. Support: Provide necessary support fire to whittle down the health of enemy naval units to gain an upper hand. 2. Ambush: Pick off enemy weak or wounded units along with embarked units. Counters: 1. Submarines: These silent killers can be a rather big pain to deal with and, if going down Wolf Pack promotion, they can devastate Battleships. 2. Destroyers: Don't let these melee ships get close or your Submarines are goners. The odds are heavily in favor of a Destroyer one shotting a Submarine. 3. Mine Fields: By forcing attacking ships to use more Movements, this building will slow down Submarine drastically and make it so they cannot do a hit and run tactic. This makes it tougher to use them to attack embarked units as they won't have the necessary Movements to escape and an enemy Destroyer gets an easy kill. A few things to note here: -Mine Fields counters two naval units while one naval units to a lesser degree. That's a single building with quite a bit of influence on naval battles near the coast. -Submarines and Carriers have to be built from scratch since no units upgrade into them. The question is whether or not they are worth the investment if you already have a large navy composed of Destroyers and Battleships. -On the topic of investment, how do people feel about the Carrier? You need to build air units for them to be useful and it's quite a bit of time needed compared to upgrading your existing navy. Are their current stats good enough or a buff is needed? Submarine at least doesn't require other units built to be dangerous on the seas and their glass cannon situation seems fine. -There has been a large consensus that mass Battleship can easily decide games. This is what people use to justify why the Mine Field exists. Why don't we make it so that Battleships cost 2,3 or even 4 Irons instead of 1? Make it harder to mass them instead of implementing a building that hurts more than just this unit and helps the human players much more than the AI. Any other thoughts? Criticisms? Mistakes that I made above?