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[GS] Late Game Resource Requirements

Discussion in 'Civ - Ideas & Suggestions' started by Amrunril, Feb 18, 2019.

  1. Amrunril

    Amrunril Emperor

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2015
    Messages:
    1,193
    Late game oil costs are an subject that's come up in a number of separate threads. To me, these requirements seem like a significant design issue and one meriting a more focused discussion. Below, I describe both what I perceive as the problem and how I'd go about resolving it. I'd welcome discussion of either.

    As one plays through the late game in GS, it becomes apparent that virtually every unit needs oil. Oil certainly is important in modern warfare (as well as many currently unrepresented civilian contexts), but I think the current representation is a bit off, in terms of both the impacts and the precise units involved. An infantry unit may use oil for transportation at times, but it clearly isn't dependent on it in the same way as a tank division or bomber squadron. Additionally, while a tank uses far more oil than a car, issues of scale mean that, on the whole, civilian uses consume far more oil (and produce far more CO2 emissions) than military ones. In GS, however, even a mid sized military can easily match a civ's industrial resource consumption. Things get even odder when you realize that advanced aircraft are among the few units that don't consume oil. This means that if you want a modern army but either lack oil or want to minimize climate change, you're better off flying warplanes across the world than garrisoning foot soldiers with guns in your cities.

    To alleviate these issues, which I think would improve both gameplay and realism, I'd propose two broad changes to the system of late game resource requirements:

    1. Infantry and Artillery do not use oil. This ensures that any civ with appropriate tech and production can build an army with modern combat strengths (not made entirely from machine guns and anti-tank weapons), regardless of resource availability/choices. Such an army, would, however, suffer highly on the mobility front compared to an oil based one. Artillery and Anti-Tank could perhaps require niter if there's a desire for scale back slightly on the resource independence.

    2. Vehicle based units consume iron (ships/tanks) or aluminum (aircraft) up front but have oil (coal for industrial ships) maintenance costs. However, they only incur these costs when actually moving. This change would have two benefits. First, it would prevent inactive military hardware from being the primary driver of climate change. Second, it would create a situation where civs can save up oil in peace but gradually draw down their stockpiles in protracted wars.
     
    phoinix, Bearmanjew and SaiH like this.
  2. SaiH

    SaiH Warlord

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2008
    Messages:
    209
    Location:
    Austria
    Very good summary and I like the suggestions. Infantry and Artillery really should not use oil – instead the supply convoy should have an oil upkeep (maybe this prevents the AI from spamming them).
    I think it generally is a bit of a balancing problem to have one strategic resource that is in fact needed as maintainance for most modern units. Oil has to be abundant and scarce enough at the same time. The possibilty to immobilize your units with no or at least reduced ressource upkeep cost (I already suggested it, too) gives the possibility to have a scarce ressource that can be economized and used if needed.
    I also like the suggestion concerning the use of iron and aluminium for building vehicle based units. Maybe aluminium could be used also for rocket related units like rocket artillerie, moble SAM and missile cruiser.
     
    Amrunril likes this.
  3. SaiH

    SaiH Warlord

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    Aug 15, 2008
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    209
    Location:
    Austria
  4. kaltorak

    kaltorak Emperor

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2009
    Messages:
    1,522
    Location:
    Madrid
    Anything that lowers the late game number of units on the map is welcome. I would double the production cost of modern units, or do anything that would make wars fought with 10 units and not 40
     

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