Latest IGN preview (July 11)

I think the koreans will be one of my new favorits. Im a really good defender, If you have played online, I am LuckyStrike77, impossible to conquer, and catapults are the best defence. With their special unit, their free promotions, financial trait and awesome University, I can sit on my back, and outresearch all other players easely, while killing of any army they send towards me with minimum losses.... ;)

Korean
Wang Kon - Financial, Protective
Korean Seowon, replaces University
+35% research

Special unit: Hwacha (?): Catapults with 50% bonus vs mellee... (sigh)
 
Not.Bad said:
I don't quite understand, I'm 99% sure that I've ordered up grenadiers with free combat 1 promotions, who could then select City Garrison 1. Did it mention somewhere in the article that the Protective and Aggresive traits are exclusive in that manner? How would that work? If it did, it seems very unfair to Tokugawa.

I did over estimate drill 1, but on the other hand, it's a free promotion, and as you said, means taking drill 2 much more "accessible". Given that you get city garrison 1, out of the box, choosing drill 2 as your free barracks promotion is pretty sweet, 2 more exp and you get Garrison 2.

No no no. I meant that you couldn't build a unit that had City Garrision I, Drill I and Combat I automatically because only the archers would get City Garrison I, Drill I and the mele/gun powder units would get Combat I. Yeah, you could upgrade an Archer to a Granaider and give him City Garrison I.

Put it this way, if units were built based on their promotions that they were automatically given for free, there wouldn't be a unit that would have all three of them, that's what I meant. You could give them promotions that allow them to have all three, but they wouldn't receive them automatically.

I was rather interested in the Drill I and II promotions given for free. I guess they found it to be rather effective on the offensive and maybe found it to be too powerful for the Chinese leaders. I personally like more aggressive promotions given as a warmonger than City Garrison, all though I can certainly see where the strength would be.

AndreasS said:
Korean
Wang Kon - Financial, Protective
Korean Seowon, replaces University
+35% research
It was +10% in a previous review. +35% sounds better though. The Koreans are going to be good.

Watiggi
 
Watiggi said:
No no no. I meant that you couldn't build a unit that had City Garrision I, Drill I and Combat I automatically because only the archers would get City Garrison I, Drill I and the mele/gun powder units would get Combat I. Yeah, you could upgrade an Archer to a Granaider and give him City Garrison I.

Put it this way, if units were built based on their promotions that they were automatically given for free, there wouldn't be a unit that would have all three of them, that's what I meant. You could give them promotions that allow them to have all three, but they wouldn't receive them automatically.
Watiggi

But my question is why? Why wouldn't a gunpowder unit have all three promotions? What if I "prefer" my Gunpowder unit to have Garrison 1 and Drill 1, over Combat 1? How would the game make that distinction? I understand that Archer units only receive Garrison 1 and drill 1, and therefore there is no conflict or stacking, but Gunpowder units benefit from both traits. I can't fathom the developers restricting the trait as such, nor could I see them adding a feature giving us a selection of what free promotions we want, because of one civ.

If they did it your way, for most of the game, Tokugawa receives only half a trait, and the archery period isn't that long, where as the gunpowder period is huge.

EDIT: Ok I am very confused now. By chance are you saying that Gunpowder units only receive the Garrison 1 promotion? Because I checked Civlopedia and all gunpowder units can receive Garrison 1, but none Drill 1. So that raises another question all together ><. Maybe Archer units only receive drill 1, and then when Gunpowder units come around, they only receive Garrison 1? That then makes sense, but I am then dissapointed.
 
Egyptian Obelisk, replaces Monument
Can turn two citizens into Priests

It means that Monument will replace Obelisk for every other civ but just Egyptians get Obelisk.

The bad thing is that it gets obsolete very quickly.

Edit : Stables seems to be a new building... I guess they are as barracks but just for mounded units so barracks are only for infantry units now.
 
Reading through the artice, some questions remain. What do you think about the following topics:

1) Does the extra experience generated by barracks(+4), Vassalage(+2), Theocracy(+2), West Point(+4), Military advisor(+2) count when collecting experience to unlock a Great General, since new units could start with 14 exp? Or does only "experience earned in combat" count?

2)What is the "stable"?
My ideas:
- New extra building that is needed to build mounted units
- "Barracks" renamed to "stable" (makes no sense for modern times)?

3) French (Salon) get +1 free artist per salon and
Russians (Research Institute) get +2 free scientist per Research Institute (this would be much stronger than the Great Library)?
Especially the Russians sound vastly overpowered to me ... should it be "can turn +2 citizes into scientists"?

4) Romans get "+25% birth rate" per Forum (replaces Market)
I am not sure if they mean "+25% great people points" (=mini-philosophical) or "+25% food bonus"?

5) The Gallic UU (Gallic Warrior) starts with "Free Guerilla I", and the Celtic Dun (replaces wall) provides free "Guerilla I" for all units. What happens if I build a Gallic Warrior in a city that has a Dun?
Possible solutions:
-Bad luck, 1 free promotion gets lost
-I get also free Guerilla II
 
Not.Bad said:
But my question is why? Why wouldn't a gunpowder unit have all three promotions? What if I "prefer" my Gunpowder unit to have Garrison 1 and Drill 1, over Combat 1? How would the game make that distinction? I understand that Archer units only receive Garrison 1 and drill 1, and therefore there is no conflict or stacking, but Gunpowder units benefit from both traits. I can't fathom the developers restricting the trait as such, nor could I see them adding a feature giving us a selection of what free promotions we want, because of one civ.

If they did it your way, for most of the game, Tokugawa receives only half a trait, and the archery period isn't that long, where as the gunpowder period is huge

Wow! Sorry. I am wrong. I didn't realise that the new change was for it to give City Garrison I and Drill I to BOTH archery units and gunpowder units. My mistake. I had it in mind that it was only for the Archery units.

ok then...wow. That does mean that Riflemen for instance are going to have Drill I, City Garrison I and Combat I, not to mention extra xp to add more promotions. He could produce 5-6 promotioned units right out of the barracks!!

Hmmm. This still depends on whether Aggressive still does give a free Combat promotion though. I will be very interested to see if it does.

Watiggi
 
Desert-Fox said:
Egyptian Obelisk, replaces Monument
Can turn two citizens into Priests

It means that Monument will replace Obelisk for every other civ but just Egyptians get Obelisk.

The bad thing is that it gets obsolete very quickly.

Yeah, but it makes buiding stonehenge early, with Ramses for instance (Ind), very powerful. Go for an early religion, build the stonehenge in no time, get some free Great Prophet points from it, and turn 1-2 citizens into priests, and you will have a great prophet extremely early! Isnt that nice? ;)
 
BlastDuke said:
Reading through the artice, some questions remain. What do you think about the following topics:

1) Does the extra experience generated by barracks(+4), Vassalage(+2), Theocracy(+2), West Point(+4), Military advisor(+2) count when collecting experience to unlock a Great General, since new units could start with 14 exp? Or does only "experience earned in combat" count?

This actually stumped me, but then I thought of the only logical answer. The chance to receive a great general is based on combat experience only. Not free stuff. Otherwise we would have generals coming out the wazoo. There is no disadvantage to this, since it's not based on promotions, but on experience.

2)What is the "stable"?
My ideas:
- New extra building that is needed to build mounted units
- "Barracks" renamed to "stable" (makes no sense for modern times)?

It's definitly not a renamed barracks. Otherwise we have no clue.

3) French (Salon) get +1 free artist per salon and
Russians (Research Institute) get +2 free scientist per Research Institute (this would be much stronger than the Great Library)?
Especially the Russians sound vastly overpowered to me ... should it be "can turn +2 citizes into scientists"?

It's probably 2 citizens into scientists. Which as I said in my posts before, is a bit underwhelming.

4) Romans get "+25% birth rate" per Forum (replaces Market)
I am not sure if they mean "+25% great people points" (=mini-philosophical) or "+25% food bonus"?

25% more great people points.

5) The Gallic UU (Gallic Warrior) starts with "Free Guerilla I", and the Celtic Dun (replaces wall) provides free "Guerilla I" for all units. What happens if I build a Gallic Warrior in a city that has a Dun?
Possible solutions:
-Bad luck, 1 free promotion gets lost
-I get also free Guerilla II

Discussed before, and the assumption was the Gallic Warrior would receive no benefit. The UB is more for every other unit.
 
yes that's nice... and I'm glad that we haven't civ2 obsolete system... so I may just evade calendar and enjoy the obelisks... but I would only use it in one city... otherwise it would mess up the GP strategy.
 
I think the Oblisk is now called the Monument.

The Egyptions have the Obilisk as their UB.

BlastDuke said:
2)What is the "stable"?
My ideas:
- New extra building that is needed to build mounted units
- "Barracks" renamed to "stable" (makes no sense for modern times)?

Yeah, there seems to be nothing about this. Maybe you need the barracks in order to build the stables? The mongol UB (which replaces the stables) gives +4 xp to mounted units. That is the same as what the barracks does. So maybe the barracks does cater for mele and the stables caters for mounted, all though that would seem a little stupid I think.

My interest now is whether:

*Aggressive halves the cost of the barracks AND the stables.
*whether the barracks will still give the 4 xp to mounted units.
*Whether Aggressive caters for more than just the mele/gun powder units.
*Whether it still gives a Combat promotion at all.

Genghis has the Aggressive trait. Considering he uses Cavelry, if the barracks only caters for the mele units, and the trait gives a free promotion to mele units, then it will be a waste for Genghis and would seem strange. Also, to give so much xp to mounted units with the Mongol UB... One wonders how it's setup.

Watiggi
 
Watiggi said:
Wow! Sorry. I am wrong. I didn't realise that the new change was for it to give City Garrison I and Drill I to BOTH archery units and gunpowder units. My mistake. I had it in mind that it was only for the Archery units.

ok then...wow. That does mean that Riflemen for instance are going to have Drill I, City Garrison I and Combat I, not to mention extra xp to add more promotions. He could produce 5-6 promotioned units right out of the barracks!!

Hmmm. This still depends on whether Aggressive still does give a free Combat promotion though. I will be very interested to see if it does.

Watiggi

Haha, seriously you had me convinced I was going crazy there for awhile. It was all clicking in my head, and it made sense the way I was saying it, but you seemed so adament, I thought I was missing something all together.

Still it did raise some questions. Namely that Gunpowder units don't normally receive drill 1. Will they receive it? If yes, will they have the option to choose drill 2 and so forth? The pessimist in me says they will in fact not receive the drill 1 promotion. I vaguely remember reading that a tank built in a city with the red cross, will not become a medic tank. Or maybe I read wrong.

I also never plan to attack Churchill in the rifling age. Talk about an excercise in futility. An already obesely strong unit, that can receive Garrison 3 and possibly more out of the box (Wespoint is available, adding +4 exp to the table), who receives a 25% discount on exp and is strong enough to come out and attack YOU out of the city? Haha.

Genghis has the Aggressive trait. Considering he uses Cavelry, if the barracks only caters for the mele units, and the trait gives a free promotion to mele units, then it will be a waste for Genghis and would seem strange. Also, to give so much xp to mounted units with the Mongol UB... One wonders how it's setup.

This is the way it's always been though, Genghis aggressive and the trait not helping his Mongul horde. The fact that they get a UB that helps mounted units is huge in itself. So I honestly doubt a change to the barracks or the aggresive trait will occur.

Why? Because if Aggressive suddenly helps Mounted units, over say gunpowder units. Half the benefit is lost after Calvary. Unless they offer a extended bonus to Calvary units and say Artillary/Armored units. It would be nerfing the trait. Offering it to Calvary AND Artillary/Armored units would be overpowered though.

So I stand, that the trait will not be changed.

Genghis still benefits from the aggressive trait even if it doesn't directly affect Mounted units. Someone has to do escort duty for the siege weapons and once Calvary becomes extinct, he maintains military prowess through gunpowder units. Besides, while genghis was known for his horse hordes, he most certainly used ground troops in his campaign.
 
Do you think the starting techs will be changed too, when the traits are, for lot of CIVs/leaders? It would be nice for Ramses to start with mysticism..... ;)
 
Not.Bad said:
Still it did raise some questions. Namely that Gunpowder units don't normally receive drill 1. Will they receive it? If yes, will they have the option to choose drill 2 and so forth? The pessimist in me says they will in fact not receive the drill 1 promotion. I vaguely remember reading that a tank built in a city with the red cross, will not become a medic tank. Or maybe I read wrong.
I'd imagine that the gunpowder units will get the Drill I promotion as well (as it is stated that they will in that Churchil pic and I see no reason why it wouldn't from that pic). But I would highly doubt that they will be able to get any more Drill promotions there after. Hell, I hope not or I will be keeping away from the Protective leaders, that's for sure! :eek:
 
Genghis solely used mounted units. Even the engineers who built and worked the seige units travelled on horse. Everyone was on horse.

I still have to mull over the different possibilities about the Aggressive trait, when related to the Mongol UB and how they all affect the mounted units. If the Stables are cheap because the Aggressive trait covers it, then maybe one could build the Stables instead of the Barracks. I don't know. There is a bit that is up in the air, so I can't tell. It depends on how it all comes together, but ultimately I am looking for that synergy that Shaka has where his traits, UU and UB come together. I am trying to find the same thing here with Genghis Khan's traits, UU and UB. In the vanilla game, aggressive was who he was, but half the bonuses had nothing to do with his style.

Not.Bad said:
You replied faster then I could edit my post =(.
Sorry :) Well, you have some time now, because I have to go now :) It has been a nice discussion ;)

Watiggi
 
I used Frederick, for an early advantage by culture and Great Persons, but they gave him Organized, and especially Creative was the trait I used. I think I'm not going to buy Warlords, cause I am a builder, not a warrior and now they also have changed almost all of the traits, so I think to think of a new strategy. Thanks, Sid!:mad: :( :mad:
 
I ahve a vague memory of the stable being mentioned somewhere as giving free Sentry or Movement bonus to horse units. I may be misremembering this though.
 
geek_knight said:
I used Frederick, for an early advantage by culture and Great Persons, but they gave him Organized, and especially Creative was the trait I used. I think I'm not going to buy Warlords, cause I am a builder, not a warrior and now they also have changed almost all of the traits, so I think to think of a new strategy. Thanks, Sid!:mad: :( :mad:

Gandhi could be your new man. A great UU for a builder civ, a great UB for a builder civ, and he starts with mysticism. Found a early religion and utilize that as a pseudo creative trait.
 
geek_knight said:
I used Frederick, for an early advantage by culture and Great Persons, but they gave him Organized, and especially Creative was the trait I used. I think I'm not going to buy Warlords, cause I am a builder, not a warrior and now they also have changed almost all of the traits, so I think to think of a new strategy. Thanks, Sid!:mad: :( :mad:

I'd say it is nice that the expansion opens up endless of new ways to play the game. Even if Frederick is changed, you might try to find new ways to play him, or try other leaders fitting your prefered playing style better, and also bringing new aspects into it!

I will say: Great work, Firaxis. This xp will really improve gameplay. Its not just about adding more stash, its also about adding new aprouches to the gameplay!

:goodjob:

By the way, I love the way they implemented the Trebuchet

Strength 4, Move 1, Cost 60
The Trebuchet is a medieval siege unit that functions as a more powerful version of the Catapult. In addition to the Catapult's main abilities, the Trebuchet reduces city defenses by another 10% per turn and, more importantly, has a full 100% city attack bonus. The Trebuchet requires Engineering and upgrades to the Cannon once you discover Steel.

The strength is lower then the catapults, but its much better for sieges and on city attack. That way they doesent obsolete eachother, the catapult and the trebuchet, but have their own uses/benefits. It also explains why the korean Hwacha is replacing the catapult, not the Trebuchet.....
 
@ Not.Bad: I probably didn't look to well at the table and I'ld like to thank you that you offered me an alternative. I sometimes get really angry and then you say things like this:blush: :blush:
 
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