Latest IGN preview (July 11)

[Thunderfall]

Hey, I'm the one who wrote the feature and I'm glad to see it's sparked so much discussion.

I thought I'd clarify a few things.

1. The Stable is an entirely new building that's unlocked with Horseback Riding. It costs 60 and adds +2xp to mounted units. The stable's bonus is CUMULATIVE with a barracks, so you can start producing mounted units with 5xp. (That means the Mongol Ger with a barracks can start off horsemen at 7xp.)

2. Aggressive trait has not changed at all.

3. Great General: The Civilopedia says he appears in your capital. The manual just says he appears in "one of your cities."

4. Typos: University of Sankore is available in Renaissance or EARLIER starts. Russian Research Lab replaces LABORATORY, not Library. Ugh.

Sorry for the screw up. I spent so much time getting the information together and formatting it that I just completely missed those obvious errors. They've been corrected. Let me know if I missed anything else.

Thanks.

Welcome to the forum, Steve! Thanks for the clarification.

It's a very good preview. You certainly know what kinds of new info to include in the previews.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

Some thoughts... does the Barracks now only give 3 exp? (I can see why with Charismatic meaning 4 exp=2 promotions) (Vassalage and Theocracy may need to be boosted a bit, given the multiple other sources of experience)

Definitely like the
Correction for Charismatic (+1 Happy instead of +2 and no Half price Broadcast... useless with Eiffel but an additional +1 happy)

Other thoughts... the +to Commerce buildings (Stock exchange, Mall, and the Mint...those might be +% to Gold)

Also both the American Mall and the Persian Apothecary replace the Grocer

seems like the only buildings that are NOT replaced are..
Supermarkets, Hospitals, Drydocks, Religious Buildings,
Broadcast Towers, Bunkers, Bomb Shelters, Recycling Plants, Hydro+Nuclear Plants

Essentially Religious buildings and otherwise Limited or Modern ones (Lab being the Exception)


Does the German Assembly Plant get +50% More production with Power or is it a Factory and Coal Plant in 1 Building? (also when it is activated with Coal, is it Clean?)

 

[rickb]

And I'm so mad that they changed Catherine! I am insane with rage

Me too! Well we can always just mod it back, although I may take the opportunity to try and ween myself off of Creative/Financial and try out the new traits. I guess I'll at least give Kate one go round to try out Imperialistic.

 

[Gumbolt]

Its good to have clarification on here from Mr bee on a number of issues.

When he is done with his copy please forward to me so i can preview it for the other 14 days before release. I would hate the reviewer to lose sleep.

 

[MisterBarca]

Read my other posts. Qin was one of the most aggressive militaristic nations in the entire history of China - the economy, the culture - everything was geared towards war and especially conquest. And Qin Shi Huang-di and his 9 year steam-roll of the rest of China which killed 2 million people was the embodiment of this culture. Even before the steam-roll, Qin was well-known as one of the biggest bully boys - forcibly annexing numerous smaller kingdoms around it. In military terms, Qin were the Nazis of ancient China. Robot-like ruthless merciless efficiency and will to conquer. He was also one of the most organized leaders in Chinese history. This organization and centralization of power and his conquest of China through military might were his two most powerful legacies to history.

Building the Great Wall is hardly his most important legacy to China, just the one with the best picture you can stick on a postcard. It was quite literally a side-note to his "career". BTW, practically *every single* Chinese leader to ever exist had a "protective" attitude to the northern barbarians. It was hardly the focus of his career. More like an appendix. If you're talking about any of the Song dynasty emperors though...You might as well give "protective" to every Chinese emperor in existence if you're going to use that definition of "protective". The northern barbarians to China is like arguing over the role of religion in America. It's the continual thorn on the side that comes up all the time, the problem that never ends. Even if he never built the Great Wall he would still be remembered as one of the most famous and influential Chinese leaders in istory. Clashes with northern barbarians happen *all the time* in Chinese history. They were continual pests to every leader every time. While there have been times where this was the focus of Chinese attention, this was hardly one of them. The main story was the conquest of China. The northern barbarians were just the side-show. They hardly defined the era or Qin Shi Huang-di.

The guy was a monument builder by the way. There was never a chance to make a monument 10 times bigger he never took. There was never a chance to build a highway or canal he didn't want to take (usually on the way to conquer someone - I suspect his troops were as good road and canal builders as they were fighters). Ergo - his response to the perenial barbarian problem that's plagued every Chinese ruler since the beginning of Chinese civilization was hey's let's build a massive wall. However, the only "protection" he was obsessed about was to make sure he didn't get assassinated. The guy was a paranoid. "The not die and not grow old" potion. His main obsession though was unifying China and centralising control - this was his passion, this was his reason for living, this was what he devoted his life too, this is what every single TV drama and movie on his life concentrates on (they usually show the Great Wall and the Terracotta soldiers as an add-on near the end after spending most of the show on his childhood, conquering and organization). This was his legacy to history - unifying China under central control for the first time.

I did read your other post. I am also very familiar with Qin, given that--among other things--I've read Sima Qian (who offered an unforgettable portrait of Shi-huang-di's time), Han Fei-Tzu (who wrote the definitive Legalist text), and other contemporary or near contemporary documents in classical Chinese.

And you still protest too vigorously. While "Aggressive" probably indeed better fits the totalitarian emperor, "Protective" is not as preposterous as you make it sound.

 

[DaviddesJ]

Great Generals will be inhuge demand in my empire. +20 exp to all units in same tile as the unit it joins with.... .

Surely it's 20 XP distributed across all of the units, not 20 XP each. That would be absurd.

 

[MisterBarca]

I'd also add that the Qin does have an analogue in the Sui dynasty under Yang-di. The latter, like our favorite emperor, was a totalitarian warmongerer. He just wasn't as successful. He was unlucky he met perhaps one of the three great military geniuses on his path: Koguryo's Ul-ji Mun-deuk.

 

[monkspider]

Thank you for the clarification. Is there any chance we can get a screenshot of Ramses? He is the one leader we have yet to see.

 

[marioflag]

Surely it's 20 XP distributed across all of the units, not 20 XP each. That would be absurd.

Yes it's absurd if Warlord add +20 xp to any unit in he same tile it will be so unbalancing and would introduce a cheese tactic of massing all troops in the same tile.I hope there is a cap to units which benefit from the advantage

 

[scottcstoness]

Russian research institute seems too much unbalanced to be true it's like having a great library in every city!!!
If it's true Firaxis would have totally broken the balance of the game.

You know it replaces the laboratory, right? That is pretty late in the game.
A great library in every city, sure, but you are building spaceships at the time.

Probably to simulate the Russian push into the forefront of (military and space) science during the Cold War after being (relatively) backwords for the last.... well, forever, really

 

[civzombie]

"Yes it's absurd if Warlord add +20 xp to any unit in he same tile it will be so unbalancing and would introduce a cheese tactic of massing all troops in the same tile.I hope there is a cap to units which benefit from the advantage"

On the other hand, if the cap is too low, then using a great general as a warlord instead of for a military acadamy (+25% to build military forever!) or training acadamy (+2exp to all troops forever!) would seem very unappealling.

As a result, the possible mechanic other posters have suggested seems unlikely to me. 20xp divided by between all troops on the same tile and one warlord unit seems like a paltry exchange for getting a military acadamy or training facility!!!

Perhaps this Steve fellow who wrote the feature can clarify????????

 

[Monado]

Is there any chance we can get a screenshot of Ramses?

I am anxiously awaiting this last leaderhead as well.

 

[Brancaleone]

On the other hand, if the cap is too low, then using a great general as a warlord instead of for a military acadamy (+25% to build military forever!) or training acadamy (+2exp to all troops forever!) would seem very unappealling.

How many units came from one single city anyway? 25% extra production or +2 XP dosent seem as powerfull as having one warlord unit (whatever he does) and booming an insame amount of upgrades everywhere. Is this the great general emergence? In this case, its even more insane! +40XP to all units in the tile! Can the reviwer correct me there?

Im really really curious about the Imperial trait; no one clarified it yet! What the Sid is the 100% extra great general emergence? I know it doubles a new feature, but wich one? The bonuses from great generals? The GGeneral spawn rate? Something else? Argh!

 

[mrbee]

Here you go:
Ramesses II

And, yeah, the XP from Great Generals is DIVIDED among units in the stack.

 

[monkspider]

Thank you Mr. Bee. You rock!

 

[marioflag]

Mr. Bee can you tell us how XP points are shared between units?
Points to units are permanent or units get them as much as there is a Warlord in their tile?
Division of XP points is automatic so the pc give randomly xp points to units in the tile or you can choose how much point and what promotikon give to every unit in this tile?
And last question can you detach warlord from units you have attached it to or not?
Thank you for your willingness mr.bee

 

[DaviddesJ]

On the other hand, if the cap is too low, then using a great general as a warlord instead of for a military acadamy (+25% to build military forever!) or training acadamy (+2exp to all troops forever!) would seem very unappealling.

How many units do you think you're going to build?? If you get +20 XP when you form the warlord, plus the value of the warlord itself is like +20 XP, then that's the equivalent of 40 XP. Your city would have to build 20 units over the course of the game for the training academy to generate +40 XP. That's quite a lot.

 

[AndreasS]

How many units do you think you're going to build?? If you get +20 XP when you form the warlord, plus the value of the warlord itself is like +20 XP, then that's the equivalent of 40 XP. Your city would have to build 20 units over the course of the game for the training academy to generate +40 XP. That's quite a lot.

Yeah, but remember the cost of upgrading those units, instead of building new ones. I gues the best will be to give those 20 points to a few specialized units you will keep as long as they live, and upgrade. In the early games I will go for miltary acadamies in my best cities......

 

[Ex Mudder]

I usually play Inida, and I really don't like India's UB. It's only really useful if you're in a lot of wars, offensive or defensive, in the late game, and I'm a peaceful builder.

Mali's UB is nice, especially for an industrious civ, which Mansa Musa is not. Now Carthage has a nice UB worth 3 base commerce, and Hannibal has great traits.

A free 20 XP in a stack is nice. Your first GG can be used to bump up all your pre barracks units. That's 4 units to XP 5, or 4 XP 5 units to XP 10. I particularly look forward to taking advantage of my GGs as a Charasmatic Civ. I like that is is a way go get an Level 4 (XP 17) unit and West Point without having to go to war with the AI.

Why is it a 25% decrease in needed experience rather than 20%? 20% of 10 is 8, 20% of 5 is 4. 25% is a wierd number, unless you really want 13 instead of 14 XPs for level 4.

I wonder why they nerfed barracks, and added in new structures to make up the differance. Better army customization? Harder to make uber units?

 

[Not.Bad]

Hey, I'm the one who wrote the feature and I'm glad to see it's sparked so much discussion.

I thought I'd clarify a few things.

1. The Stable is an entirely new building that's unlocked with Horseback Riding. It costs 60 and adds +2xp to mounted units. The stable's bonus is CUMULATIVE with a barracks, so you can start producing mounted units with 5xp. (That means the Mongol Ger with a barracks can start off horsemen at 7xp.)

2. Aggressive trait has not changed at all.

3. Great General: The Civilopedia says he appears in your capital. The manual just says he appears in "one of your cities."

4. Typos: University of Sankore is available in Renaissance or EARLIER starts. Russian Research Lab replaces LABORATORY, not Library. Ugh.

Sorry for the screw up. I spent so much time getting the information together and formatting it that I just completely missed those obvious errors. They've been corrected. Let me know if I missed anything else.

Thanks.

Kudos sir, as one of the earlier critisisers of your article for its innaccuracy's, I appreciate you coming here and making the effort of clarifying your article, as well as correcting it all together. So I withdraw my criticism. I can no longer find any obvious errors.

I have to ask though, did they change the Barracks? You stated it now offers + 3 experience, over its old +4. This is a semi significant change.

So as you said, the Stables-Barracks will allow mounted units two promotions (via 5 exp) out of the box. The Mongul UU-Barracks will alow 7 exp out of the box, and possibly 11 with Vassalage and Theocracy. Interesting. The change makes sense that way, as it prevents the Mongols from receiving 10 exp Mounted Units out of the box once they receive feudalism.

The effect on regular units is slim though. Intead of 8 exp max out of the box, they get 7, which is still two promotions like before. The only long term effect is the Barracks-Vassalage-Theocracy-Pentagon will no longer give 10 exp out of the box for units, but 9 instead, while Westpoint will offer the 3rd promotion (11 exp total).