1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Laws ?

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Demo Game V: Citizens' started by Fier Canadien, Jul 27, 2004.

  1. Fier Canadien

    Fier Canadien Citizen

    Joined:
    May 21, 2002
    Messages:
    807
    Location:
    Québec, Québec, Canada
    AS the constitution ratification is underway, and nearing its end, wouldn't it be the right time to get some discussions about our laws.

    I mean, well, we can't simply have a consitution. We definitely need some kind of law to complement the constitution.

    Unless we go like DG 3 with the "established tradition" thing...
     
  2. ravensfire

    ravensfire Member of the Opposition

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2002
    Messages:
    5,281
    Location:
    Gateway to the West
    I propose that, rather than a large, complicated Code of Laws, we create individual laws that are specific to the action prompting the laws. Further, we don't pass any until we identify the need for them.

    -- Ravensfire
     
  3. donsig

    donsig Low level intermediary

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2001
    Messages:
    12,895
    Location:
    Rochester, NY
    Sure we can.

    We should only consider enacting laws that we really need.
     
  4. Cyc

    Cyc Looking for the door...

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2002
    Messages:
    14,736
    Location:
    Behind you
    Well, in my opinion, there are enough "needed" laws to warrant either expanding the Constitution or begin a Code of Laws (CoL) and/perhaps a Code of Standards (CoS). We may only need an expanded CoL that defines not only the Articles of the Constitution more clearly, but goes as far as laying out procedures for the Judiciary or absenteeism or Deputies (things of that nature).

    So that should be our first concern. Write these proposals up as extentions of the Constitution? Or write them up as new entries in the CoL?
     
  5. gert-janl

    gert-janl Alive!!!

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2002
    Messages:
    511
    Location:
    The Netherlands
    I would make new entries in something like a CoL. The Constitution should be the base, and not a huge document with all sorts of laws.
     
  6. Cyc

    Cyc Looking for the door...

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2002
    Messages:
    14,736
    Location:
    Behind you
    I agree with you, gert-janl.
     
  7. Immortal

    Immortal Deity

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2002
    Messages:
    5,950
    Extensions of the constitution within a Lawbook in my opinion.
     
  8. donsig

    donsig Low level intermediary

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2001
    Messages:
    12,895
    Location:
    Rochester, NY
    Could we start with a list of what is *needed*? Personally I don't see much of a need...
     
  9. Provolution

    Provolution Sage of Quatronia

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2004
    Messages:
    10,102
    Location:
    London
    I suggest common law, that we make laws along the road in the assembly.
    Constitutions work only to a certain point in here.
     
  10. Cyc

    Cyc Looking for the door...

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2002
    Messages:
    14,736
    Location:
    Behind you
    I remember your aversion of laws and rulesets, donig. But we must have structure for certain portions of the game or we will just have to drop them from the game. Period.


    The three I mentioned above are pretty important. Without rules how would you know how to file 17 thousand JRs and CCs in a Term? Would you just make up the rules as you went along? How would we replace a dead-beat Leader? Just say, "Ok, times up, I had enough. Considr that Leader impeached because I say so." Should we decide everything in Turn Chat sessions or should we explicitly state what Legal Instructions are? Should we have a due process of Law or just let donsig decide?

    You can not say we don't need laws. That's an insane thought. The Constitution is too vague and doesn't touch most of the issues. We can't keep stopping gameplay to have a week long discussion and then a poll or two so that we can draw up a proposed law about something we decided to wait on and then run a rification poll on to make it law. Why? Because you want to wait on everything other than what's in the Constitution. We would always be stopped. What a waste of time.
     
  11. Epimethius

    Epimethius Wish I Hadn't Been Here

    Joined:
    May 29, 2004
    Messages:
    770
  12. Cyc

    Cyc Looking for the door...

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2002
    Messages:
    14,736
    Location:
    Behind you
    That's pretty much what a Code of Laws is, Epimethius. I'm glad you agree.
     
  13. Comnenus

    Comnenus AKA Kenshin

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2004
    Messages:
    432
    Location:
    Cadillac, MI
    The first one I can think of regards political parties.

    An article is being written for the Constitution to ban parties and refers to "lower law". Lower law needs to enumerate the banned activities so as not to have any problems down the road.
     
  14. Black_Hole

    Black_Hole Deity

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2004
    Messages:
    3,424
    i agree with donsig, we dont need a code of laws, adding it makes more JRs becasue of conflicts with the constitution and it adds more loopholes. It also hampers our freedom, if anything really important needs to be done we can add it to the constitution(altho this will be hard because we arent gonna have 40 active ppl later in the game)
     
  15. Fier Canadien

    Fier Canadien Citizen

    Joined:
    May 21, 2002
    Messages:
    807
    Location:
    Québec, Québec, Canada
    I can identify a (few) need(s) right now:
    • All executive positions in the constitution are referring to "as prescribed by law"
    • Who is responsible for the definition of Provinces?
    • Can the Culture Minister override a build queue with culture as he once did?
    • Who shall replace the President as DP if he can't play one time (i.e.: chain of command)
    • In what order shall we name cities?

    And this list could get very long...
     
  16. Epimethius

    Epimethius Wish I Hadn't Been Here

    Joined:
    May 29, 2004
    Messages:
    770
    That wasn't a "code of laws" in the way I think some people mean it, it was simply a list of laws (and, to a large extent decrees :p ) made over time. What I'm saying we should do is simply allow anyone to post a poll for a law, that if approved would go into such a list.
     
  17. Black_Hole

    Black_Hole Deity

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2004
    Messages:
    3,424
    which is a code of laws ;)
    last game the code of laws was jus a list of laws that was sorted
     

Share This Page