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Lead Designer Soren Johnson livestreaming and discussing Civ IV

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by mantis2007, Apr 27, 2014.

  1. mantis2007

    mantis2007 Chieftain

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    Soren Johnson, the lead designer of Civ IV, is currently playing Civ IV and discussing the game's development, AI, and various stories from the creation of the game live at:

    http://www.twitch.tv/sorenjohnson
     
  2. Windsor

    Windsor Flawless

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    Thanks for the tip!

    edit: Offline :(

    edit2: Back! :D
     
  3. mantis2007

    mantis2007 Chieftain

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    He stepped away for a bit to fix some quality issues with his stream. It's back up as I write this.
     
  4. The Diocletian

    The Diocletian Fire Fly

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    Only vanilla Civ4 from the looks of it, but oh well.
     
  5. Windsor

    Windsor Flawless

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    Interesting to watch him stream. He do share some insight into how Civ4 was made, but for any experienced Civ4 player it's amazing how bad he is at his own game. I'm not trying to belittle him. It just shows that there's a big difference between designing a game and playing/mastering it.
     
  6. The Diocletian

    The Diocletian Fire Fly

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    He said in his stream: "Sometimes players know your own game better than you do."

    I can't really blame him for what is considered non-optimal play, I suppose he doesn't really have the time to constantly play and improve on it, or he may just not care to.
     
  7. AdamCrock

    AdamCrock Polish Pudding

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    "Sometimes players know your own game better than you do."

    That's the I 'st commandemendt , waiting for the other IX precious jewels xD
     
  8. gps

    gps King

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    Makes sense. Vanilla was his baby. He wasn't around anymore when the expansions were released. I wonder what he thinks about them and the new game elements...

    I think it's also not easy to compete against the collective knowledge of thousands and thousands of player constantly exchanging experiences via the internet. I doubt most players would be as good as they are right now - without that source of information.
     
  9. Rusty Edge

    Rusty Edge Deity

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    Exactly. The stuff I learned here made me a better player in fewer games. The stuff I figured out on my own- somebody here discovered it first.

    The only thing I know of that I came up with on my own before anyone else is the Vedic Aryan worker decoy, which causes them to annihilate your nearest neighbor instead of you, transforming that juicy capital into a weakly garrisoned barb city.
    It's way better than losing the game in the ancient era.

    I'm sure a game designer can't enjoy his own game the way we can, simply because there are to many reminders to break his immersion. So many reminders of problems, disagreements, deadlines and disappointments. Instead of enjoying his revenge against Monty, he's probably thinking "this would have been so much better my way", "this would have been so much easier to make if I had the budget/person/ time I specified in the beginning", etc. etc. It's reviewing his work, not a diversion from it, as a game should be.

    Since I think IV ( in it's multitude of forms, much as Monopoly) is the greatest game ever invented - board, console or otherwise...

    I think Soren is awesome!
     
  10. Lennier

    Lennier Emperor

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    OK; I have to ask. By "Vedic Aryan worker decoy" (VAWD), do you mean use a worker as bait for the Aryans and lead them away from your capitol to a rivals?
     
  11. Tatran

    Tatran Deity

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    ^
    A good question.
    I'm curious too, although the "Vedic Aryans" event doesn't show up that often anymore (BUFFY 3.19.003).
     
  12. TheSunIsDark

    TheSunIsDark Settled Great Scientist

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    Wow... going for RELIGION at the start? While not starting with Mysticism? :lol: Only watched to 10:48 so far, might change his mind.
     
  13. Rusty Edge

    Rusty Edge Deity

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    I have always played with random events.
    The Vedic Aryans are basically a game over event when they come for you- a stack of barb archers when your capital is usually defended by a warrior.

    Yes. That's the idea. I didn't have much to work with, and the worker(s) were going to be lost anyway when my capital fell. My other units were exploring or fog busting and since they were a scout and a warrior or two, they were going to be lost even if they could return in time to fight.

    Since the Vedic Aryans are barbs, they like to enslave workers. My brave workers decided to die leading the barbarians away from his wife and family. Except that my worker could use the roads he'd built, and he was faster than the Aryans. So he could keep himself safely two tiles away. Close enough for the barbs to see and chase him, but not close enough for them to capture him. Much to our surprise, the stack didn't split up. The whole horde pursued him. When the barbs were led to the neighboring city, they forgot about my worker.

    The captured city becomes just another barb city, only with more improvements and a better location. As soon as I have axes I can take out the two archers defending it.


    I've done it a number of times. It's a lot of fun. No diplo penalty, either.
     
  14. gps

    gps King

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    Kudos. sure one of the most brilliant things I read so far in context with Civ IV.

    Which in case of Civ IV would really be a shame. Designing a brilliant game like that really is an achievement to be proud of!
     
  15. Rusty Edge

    Rusty Edge Deity

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    Why, thank you! It was a matter of looking at what I had to work with in a survival situation and taking a chance when I was about to lose everything anyway. I didn't expect it to work that well, if at all.



    I was just speculating based on my relatives, etc. who are professional chefs, builders, mechanics, etc. People like to keep work and recreation separate. Being reminded of work takes away the relaxation.

    As for brilliant, I think Moon Singer is one of the greatest there ever was at figuring out Civ on her own.
     
  16. Soren Johnson

    Soren Johnson Game Designer

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  17. gps

    gps King

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    ^^ OMG, THE Soren Johnson posting in the same thread than I do. This is almost kind of a spiritual feeling... :king:
    So thanks a lot for this fantastic game!!!
     
  18. Steamwerks

    Steamwerks Warlord

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    Wow, great start - triple grassland gems, pigs, gold, all but 4 tiles on river.
     
  19. rah

    rah Deity Supporter

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    Actually what surprised me the most was his discussion of the blue circle. He said that the blue circle was created using the AI assessment and outright said that there might be hidden resources since the spot was being recommended. Having read all the threads here about that I thought the code divers and totally debunked that.

    So now I'm confused about the real answer. I think I'll lean with the designer.
     
  20. Ghpstage

    Ghpstage Deity

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    What was the context of 'hidden' though?
    Hidden in the fog? As far as i know noones ever gone as far as to properly test this, so noone really knows.
    Or,
    Hidden due to not having the tech, this has has been convincingly disproven.
     

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