Leader Appearance Thread

[Bonyduck Campersang]

This thread is for discussing (or ranting about, in my case) the appearance of leaders featured in the game (and maybe how their character is depicted – not sure about that).

I'll start with Elizabeth (I). As others have pointed out before, her model is rather off-putting. I put it down to a different art team or group working on her model (and Ludwig's as well, they share the same style) than the ones employed on the rest of the leaders. This time, however, I'm more interested in her clothes.

I'm not an expert on Elizabethan clothing, but the sleeves rub me the wrong way. Does anyone know how historically accurate they are?

Going cursorily through her portraits I can't find the inspiration for her Civ6 outfit.

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There's another thing that bothers me – the model in the game is considerably less pale than how she is depicted in portraits and descriptions. Elizabeth's fondness for applying pale makeup is an almost iconic part of her appearance/persona. The fact that the Civ6 model is – almost pointedly – without any makeup just feels odd. Here is a more historically accurate depiction of her using the Civ6 model as a base (this is the work of Redditor henrique3d):

The official Leader Pass artwork is also much more to my taste than the actual model:

I also have a weakness for a more aged version of Elizabeth – makes her look sterner and grander – more queenly, if you get me.

I really don't have much to say besides. Just waiting for the morning prayer to set in so I can finally get to sleep, so I made this post to fill in the time.

 

[Catalytic]

I think a fair amount of the issue with this model is that the lighting on the model isn't very strong. It's got some distinct shadows especially around the pearls and the curls of her hair. Use a more direct and saturating light and you get the appearance that the Redditor you cited shows. I suspect there was an effort to give her a "lively" look about the face. Wash those colors out too much on someone very fair-skinned and they look dead. I do hear what you're saying about historical depiction, make-up, and contemporary attitudes about beauty. Very white skin was seen as a beauty optimum and of course the "Virgin Queen" was well known for using her unmarried status as a political tool. On the whole though, I like what they've done with her.

If I had to pick models to complain about, she wouldn't be terribly high on my list. The new Suleiman needs to have his skin tone match the original. Ramses needs to be finished. Yongle needs to look less European and more distinct from Sejong. And just as a personal dislike, I wish they hadn't made Philip of Spain look and animate in such an over-the-top cheesy way.

 

[Ashbery76]

They seem to be just putting what they want rather than making it look like the real person's art.Ceaser for instance.Concerns me for Civ7.

 

[AntSou]

but the sleeves rub me the wrong way.

If you check the second picture you'll notice the sleeves and that thing around her neck are also identical, like in the civ model. The clothes are also the closest in style, and also the hair. So they probably relied a lot on that one. The sleeves in the civ model look like that because the original is too complex to draw.

In the context of a leader pass which includes Theodora and Ramses, the clothing doesn't look that bad imo.

 

[Chefofrats]

I find it fascinating how many people are consumed by discussions about the leader models. Do you really look at them so closely and so long during gameplay that it makes any difference what the details of their looks are? And why do those details matter so much, anyway? Civ leaders may be very loosely inspired by real people, but they live 6000 years, leading civilizations created by us, in procedurally generated worlds. Why do the buttons on their sleeves bother some people more than the fact they are immortal, or that they have inflexible, idiotic agendas that can bring about the downfall of their AI empires?

In Age of Wonders 4 you can customize the looks of your leader (their traits too, but that is another matter), which is something the developers of Civ VII should consider. I know AoW4 is a fantasy game, but really, is Civ realistic?

PS. How long before somebody mentions something about a leader's looks that gets this thread closed?

 

[Bonyduck Campersang]

I find it fascinating how many people are consumed by discussions about the leader models. Do you really look at them so closely and so long during gameplay that it makes any difference what the details of their looks are? And why do those details matter so much, anyway? Civ leaders may be very loosely inspired by real people, but they live 6000 years, leading civilizations created by us, in procedurally generated worlds. Why do the buttons on their sleeves bother some people more than the fact they are immortal, or that they have inflexible, idiotic agendas that can bring about the downfall of their AI empires?

In Age of Wonders 4 you can customize the looks of your leader (their traits too, but that is another matter), which is something the developers of Civ VII should consider. I know AoW4 is a fantasy game, but really, is Civ realistic?

PS. How long before somebody mentions something about a leader's looks that gets this thread closed?

What do you think the 'Fanatic' in 'CivFanatic' is for?


Anyway, I am not 'consumed' by the appearance of leader models, I was only making observations and expressing my personal preferences.

 

[Bonyduck Campersang]

And just as a personal dislike, I wish they hadn't made Philip of Spain look and animate in such an over-the-top cheesy way.

It is interesting how they chose to make caricatures for some leaders while having a more sober and relatively grounded depiction for others. Caricatures aren't bad in of themselves – provided they don't lean into offensive stereotypes – but they tend to stand out and look weird when other characters aren't caricatured.

 

[Bonyduck Campersang]

They seem to be just putting what they want rather than making it look like the real person's art.Ceaser for instance.Concerns me for Civ7.

I keep thinking of Trajan as Julius Caesar becuase of his resemblance to the Julius Caesar from the Asterix comics.

Though seeing them juxtaposed I'm not sure why that's the case.

 

[GIO888]

it just goes to show it takes all sorts.

I think Elizabeth is hotter than hell, and have her in every game!!!

Not seen the pale version above before - WISH she was that one

 

[Yorke]

I find it fascinating how many people are consumed by discussions about the leader models. Do you really look at them so closely and so long during gameplay that it makes any difference what the details of their looks are?

Yeeees. Actually I really like Elizabeth model but dislike the fact that she is positioned very back in the virtual stage where leaders appear (her denounce animation is the only one that seems fine bc she's closer to the screen). She looks so small compared with Victoria, who steps forward and presents herself.

Same with Suleiman. His Kanune persona occupies all diplomatic screen from top to bottom, his alternative persona is literally smaller (why?)

Aesthetically the only leader (from LP) I don't like is Ramses. They made his jewels bad and close to Greek Cleopatra he looks like Caucasian (not a problem with the fact he is white ingame) went Halloween. I also don't like how they didn't put texture on some clothes. Theodora white dress could use the same texture from Tamar's or Pericles' white fabric but instead is opaque and looks like a dress made of sheet. Her jewels (and Yongle belt jewels) lack the jewel polish that we can see on Nader Shah.

I wanted to open a thread just to point out those things in hope Firaxis would address it until Final Patch™ but after all threads about bugs post-NFP I thought I would be more happier if they just fixed those gameplay things instead of relitigate Ramses and other leaders

Hot take: Bess with makeup is awful, she looks like a clown. I would love see her pale bc of the white powder but the reddit version just looks... off

And Firaxis, please, change her image on beginning screen. You put there Elizabeth mockup or drawing but not her final model. I can tell by her neck piece which you changed on the leader model but didn't on that pic neither on her leader portrait, thank you (I have a suggestion: use the same pose she's doing on her Leader Spotlight thumbnail).

Final edit: whoever did Bess crown deserves love

Post-final edit: well, I'm messy and didn't see that the thread was about the whole cast of characters, so let's serve another takes:

1) I don't like that both Kublai Khan poses are equal but Eleanor's are different for each civ (same for their portrait). Also, Kublai isn't that bad on motion but Jesus Holy Christ that black line between his head and hair on his static image is so distracting. That pose really doesn't help him (but fits perfectly his Chinese persona, just change the Mongolian). Final take on this: his belt accessories clips on his clothes.
2) Lighting on post-NFP leaders miss nuance as older ones
3) I love the caricature art they used. It proportionate a lot of abundant flavor and mixed with their animation (Cleopatra's charming introduction) and voice performances (love Suleiman's HA! when you declare war against him) really really brings a magical touch. I just can't think of Gilgamesh anymore on Civ IV terms, e.g.... He needs to be the huge, statuesque, bodybuilder bromancer

 

[Bonyduck Campersang]

Hot take: Bess with makeup is awful, she looks like a clown. I would love see her pale bc of the white powder but the reddit version just looks... off

I think it's the lipstick, don't know how historically accurate that is

 

[Bonyduck Campersang]

On the other hand, Catherine de Medici looks so good — the clothes, the animation, her characterisation — almost everything about her is perfect

 

[Hellenism Salesman]

I know I've mentioned the idea before of basing leaders' appearances on their culture's art/depictions of them in art, but I figured I'd bring it up here.

Just to be clear, what I want more than anything is stylistic consistency from the next Civ game, so long as that style is appealing. There are a handful of leaders that I really like the look of in Civ VI, but each leader is stylized differently, leading to a stark contrast between Teddy and Gandhi, for instance.

I still like the idea of incorporating cues from their depictions, where applicable and within the grounds of realism. Even if we don't go with that, it would be nice to include at least one depiction of the leader from their culture's art in their Civilopedia entry, just to see how that and the (presumably at least semi-historical) in-game depiction compare.

-- okay just throwing this in for any fellow artists/storytellers/character designers/people interested in characters in the crowd, totally removed from historicity. If you're not here for that, move along --

Anyway, onto the titular fanaticism.

One of the things I absolutely ADORE about Civ VI's art is that it doesn't worry itself with standards. It doesn't try and keep all women stereotypically pretty with the same faces and body types, and the same holds true for the men. Stylistic inconsistency aside, it goes out of its way to make each leader on the roster a unique character. It really feels like they conceptualize an idea for the character of a leader and then build the design, dialogue, and animations around that.

For example, Alex is... somewhat expectedly ... pompous, self-absorbed, and one that revels in war. He swishes his hair around and has this punchable toothy smile to create this effect. He stares at his reflection in his shortsword- which- importantly- he carries around and will actually brandish if you tick him off! Same with his helmet.

As another example, Dido is- from a single glance- a woman of luxury. She wears Tyrian purple and lots of gold jewelry with neatly done hair. Her face is designed in a way that emphasizes her eyebrows and mouth, which is good, because the animators needed that to sell her incredible expressiveness and create facial expressions to match her dramatic movements. Dido speaks with a lull that feels like she wants something from you (your money, or your boats, please and thank you) and acts like it too.

These are just two examples, but they get the point across. I could literally do this all day. I could even mention how the leader's background art- as unfortunately obscured as it is in-game- plays into their characterization as well, with Alex on a balcony that shows all of his conquered lands, while Dido relaxes in view of a beautiful sunset with her majestic boats on display.

If my use of the silly smilies is any indication, I'm a person who gleans a lot about a person based on their face, and that goes both for facial expression and their facial features. When crafting a unique character for each leader, the artists at Firaxis took extra time to make those especially unique, and weren't afraid to cross the boundaries of what's societally considered attractive to do it.

All in all, the wonderful amount of effort the creatives at Firaxis put into each leader's personality is part of what drew me into Civ (Civ VI is my first Civ game) and what gave it a great deal of magic when I first started playing. Each new save was another unique ensemble of new and familiar faces, which made diplomacy more fun.

...it's a shame that many of the mechanics tied to leaders let down the artists' efforts, though, as most AI players act the same, regardless of their exuberant external personalities. This leaves the diplomacy system really shallow, which ends up making a lot of the personality feel painted on, but that's a topic for another thread.

 

[Bonyduck Campersang]

Yes, that's one of the strong points of Civ6's cartoonish art style, a lot of the leaders are wonderfully well-characterised. Alexander is a great example, and Catherine de Medici, Philip II and Cyrus are also good examples of well-designed characters. (I know there have been complaints about Cyrus' characterisation, but I am referring to his quality of design, and not commenting on the its accuracy or implications).

 

[Bonyduck Campersang]

Look at the size of his hands

 

[Hellenism Salesman]

Okay that photo leaves me almost convinced some artist at Firaxis intentionally inflated Caesar's hands as a joke and passed it off as "stylization" to quality control.

Then, once they were in the clear, they posed him like this to reveal how ridiculous it is

His hands almost completely cover his abdomen!

 

[James_Champagne]

I think we can generally agree that Ramses is the Kublai Khan of Leader Pass *shivers*

A shame because as someone who plays as Egypt often I was looking forward to him... but then again, if you're playing as them, it's not as if you have to see them all that often