Leader Discussion - Edward Teach First Impressions

[Lord Lakely]

Someone was asking about this, but I was able to enter neutral territory with a packed Ottru.


What's really interesting is that the Chola Naval Commander isn't considered a pirate when commanded by Teach, so it's left alone.

 

[pjotroos]

What's really interesting is that the Chola Naval Commander isn't considered a pirate when commanded by Teach, so it's left alone.

Same was true for the Buccaneer when playing as Pirates (and presumably for the default Naval Commander) - pack the units if you want to move them safely, unpack when you're ready for the shenanigans to start again.

 

[tedhebert]

Same was true for the Buccaneer when playing as Pirates (and presumably for the default Naval Commander) - pack the units if you want to move them safely, unpack when you're ready for the shenanigans to start again.

yeah commander is a civilian unit, so not a naval pirate… unless you’re at war they won’t attack it

 

[cairnsy44]

I played my first game with him, using Carthage - Chola - Britain on an Archipelago map. As suspected, his Antiquity age feels quite lackluster. Yes, you get a lot of ships, but ships are not very useful in the Antiquity age. On Deity, you will fight at quite a disadvantage and there is not too much you can do to buff ships. And archers and ballistas on the shore are extremely dangerous. The result is that the ships spend most of the time trying to heal. The Carthage ship range upgrade was a lifesaver and after also researching Quadriremes , I was able to make some progress and even capture cities. But I got nowhere near the end of the tech or civic tree, and did not get many Science or Culture legacy points. But that may also be, because Carthage is not very strong in the current balance as they have to buy a lot and everything is so expensive. Maybe I will try Aksum or Tonga with him to see whether that feels better.

But he makes up for that by having a really powerful Exploration age. Naval units are much more useful in that age, and fleet commanders make all the difference. Add in Chola UUs and you get an unstoppable fleet which grows with each victory. You don't even take that much damage, since the initial salvo will usually capture a ship, which then serves as cannon fodder for the counterattack. Which means that you lose quite a few of the captured ships, but will still walk away from a naval battle with extra ships. On Archipelago map, the fleet can be easily converted into a large empire and I brought 110 points worth of treasure resources back home and I think I don't even captured anyone else's treasure convoys.

Modern was then just a mop-up. Starting with 5 fleet commanders (many of those highly leveled) full of ships meant that the AI did not stand a chance. After declaring war on turn 12, I conquered 10 settlements and eliminated 3 AIs in 9 turns (and could even have done it a few turns faster, had I remembered to bring a land unit with me). This resulted in a turn 31 military victory, which is tied with my fastest Modern age victory ever (and the other one was before 1.2.5).

my first game with Teach saw me nearly eliminate every civ in the Exploration age. All but 3 cities of Machiavelli. I just ran out of time. It was over by turn 12 on Modern.

 

[Nic@Melbourne]

Good Narrative Events

 

[UWHabs]

yeah commander is a civilian unit, so not a naval pirate… unless you’re at war they won’t attack it

Even just with regular privateers, you can pack them in your commander and they're safe in there. Also commanders get XP from privateers too, so it was a great way to pre-level them up before launching an invasion otherwise.

 

[vorlon_mi]

This leader's pretty great. The ability to print naval units is pretty strong with Tonga:

View attachment 746795

I hard-built exactly ONE kalia, captured the other ships from a hostile city state to the north.

Just be careful to not bankrupt yourself.

+1 to the last sentence! I got a narrative event/quest to build 4 ships. So I started including those in my early build list (also running Tonga in Antiquity). Found myself bringing in only single digit gold-per-turn... on turn 60.

Went back to a turn 30 save, focused more on infrastructure, even got the Colossus built, thanks to a celebration.
Now bringing in +25 gpt, building the ships along with other buildings. I've also captured some IP galleys and used my Kalia to pick off embarked AI units. Once they're swimming, no declaration of war needed.... down they go. Only downside is all the experience is wasted, as fleet commanders don't exist yet.

 

[Lonecat Nekophrodite]

This leader's pretty great. The ability to print naval units is pretty strong with Tonga:

View attachment 746795

I hard-built exactly ONE kalia, captured the other ships from a hostile city state to the north.

Just be careful to not bankrupt yourself.

How come did Tonga has two types of warships? there's generic galley and UU.
Recommended choice of Age 1 is Aksum.

 

[vorlon_mi]

How come did Tonga has two types of warships? there's generic galley and UU.
Recommended choice of Age 1 is Aksum.

Whichever civ that Teach/Blackbeard leads, their ships can act as pirates and capture a defeated enemy ship. So the generic galleys that are shown in the screenshot are captured from either IP or other AI civs. It would be interesting to have Teach lead Aksum (as you note), so that the Dhows can capture others.
Or if one chooses Chola in the Exploration Age, instead of Republic of Pirates. Having a double-attack Kalam that captures its victim could be very powerful.

 

[Lonecat Nekophrodite]

Just try him last night. As a sea king he could be. his ship can't be placed close to shores that have other player's ranged attackers or they'll shoot at. no matter how friendly with that player you are.

 

[vorlon_mi]

Whichever civ that Teach/Blackbeard leads, their ships can act as pirates and capture a defeated enemy ship. So the generic galleys that are shown in the screenshot are captured from either IP or other AI civs. It would be interesting to have Teach lead Aksum (as you note), so that the Dhows can capture others.
Or if one chooses Chola in the Exploration Age, instead of Republic of Pirates. Having a double-attack Kalam that captures its victim could be very powerful.

I continued my Teach game into Exploration, choosing Republic of Pirates.I found Ashoka in the game (Distant Lands) and yes, when I capture Kalam's they do stay as Kalams... including their double attack. Even captured an AI Privateer, to add to my growing fleet.

I don't think that I killed any Dhow's in Antiquity, nor any Cetbang's in Exploration. I can get a Mikasa (probably), since Himiko is in this game and I expect here to choose Meiji Japan. Next time I play him, I will keep aware of those civs and their unique naval units.

 

[MutilationWave]

I continued my Teach game into Exploration, choosing Republic of Pirates.I found Ashoka in the game (Distant Lands) and yes, when I capture Kalam's they do stay as Kalams... including their double attack. Even captured an AI Privateer, to add to my growing fleet.

I don't think that I killed any Dhow's in Antiquity, nor any Cetbang's in Exploration. I can get a Mikasa (probably), since Himiko is in this game and I expect here to choose Meiji Japan. Next time I play him, I will keep aware of those civs and their unique naval units.

I only played one game as Teach, but I did an undeclared war against Ashoka in exploration to take a bunch of kalams. Super fun. Grabbed one cetbang as well.

 

[uppi]

I continued my Teach game into Exploration, choosing Republic of Pirates.I found Ashoka in the game (Distant Lands) and yes, when I capture Kalam's they do stay as Kalams... including their double attack. Even captured an AI Privateer, to add to my growing fleet.

I don't think that I killed any Dhow's in Antiquity, nor any Cetbang's in Exploration. I can get a Mikasa (probably), since Himiko is in this game and I expect here to choose Meiji Japan. Next time I play him, I will keep aware of those civs and their unique naval units.

In my opinion, the stronger option for Teach is to play Chola or Majapahit himself. When you capture enemy cogs, you can upgrade them into Kalams or Cetbangs. Spain is also a good option. In my opinion, Republic of Pirates does not offer that much that it makes them worth choosing.

 

[vorlon_mi]

In my opinion, the stronger option for Teach is to play Chola or Majapahit himself. When you capture enemy cogs, you can upgrade them into Kalams or Cetbangs. Spain is also a good option. In my opinion, Republic of Pirates does not offer that much that it makes them worth choosing.

I played Tonga in Antiquity, to see what they had to offer. Being able to explore deep ocean on an Archipelago map was wonderful. But I definitely didn't prepare well for an Exploration Age as Republic of Pirates. I forgot two key things: 1) that settlers carry over, when using Continuity (as I do) and 2) that RoP can't build any settlers, only capture them. So my settling in Distant Lands got off to a slow start. Later in Exploration, the AI started sending out lots of unescorted settlers for me to capture. Shipping distance meant my treasure convoys were slower, so I only got one milestone.

Had I plopped down a settlement in DL sooner, I might have converted it to a city and built Havana Harbor.
I agree that most of what made Exploration fun was the attributes from Teach, not from RoP.
Given that all of Teach's ships are always pirates, they become targets of the AI, even your friends. If you're crossing near someone else's land, they will shoot at you with ranged land units, siege units, and naval units.

 

[MutilationWave]

In my latest Antiquity, Teach was one of my opponents on shattered seas. I sent a dhow over to make a trade route and he had a ton of ships, so many that my ship had trouble getting into his territory at all. The thing is, none of them attacked and they didn't leave his borders. We were at neutral relations. Has anyone actually seen him, as an opponent, use his ships for piracy?

 

[vorlon_mi]

Finishing up Modern with Teach -- I'm reminded of the players on Civ3 and Civ4 who used "Always War", either as a formal option or an informal practice. Teach's ships are always viewed by the AI as potential piracy. Any time I sail within range of a ranged unit or siege unit, they take a shot. Nappy and Ashoka (WC) have even gone so far as to set up a siege unit on an island, so they can take a shot at one of my ships *within my borders*, trying to heal up. The "threat recognition" logic seems to be working.

As I had a huge navy going into Modern, the Military victory was a natural. I found out (the hard way) that it is possible to go too fast. If I take 8 settlements before I have an ideology, I get 1 point each (yay) and am way over the settlement limit (ugh). In later wars, after I've achieved the VC and am building the two wonders, I managed to crash my economy due to unit support and settlements in unrest. All of those ships that became mine after conquering still cost unit support! One can't delete damaged ships, I learned. I healed up some Ships of the Line, deleted them, and deleted some of the spare Line Infantry I had sitting around from the transition to Modern.