Leader Discussion - Sayyida al Hurra First Impressions

[disjointaccount]

Having played my first game with her now, she's kind of what I expected. The culture and influence probably aren't terrible if you lean into it, but they're definitely in the lower echelons of leader power levels, and more importantly, I have no desire to lean into it. Definitely not my playstyle at all, in part because if I'm making troops I want to use them to go and kill stuff, but also because I'm not a fan of abilities that take a while to come online - the general lack of this relative to previous entries has been on of the best things about 7 and the ages system for me. A leader that doesn't really get going until exploration just takes me back to waiting (literal) ages to get my Mustangs while everyone else is running around with their War Carts and Legions. Sure, you can make a bunch of boats in antiquity, but they have especially little to do then. I was playing Aksum and it definitely felt like what momentum I had entirely came from them.

 

[Kmart_Elvis]

I haven't played her yet but she does seem like a leader with an acquired taste. Pretty limited on the playstyle and very little freedom. What I've gathered:

1) she seems more geared for a defensive, "peaceful" strategy. Your boats exist to park on your districts, so if you're going out and exploring with them or supporting sieges/attacks, you're not getting that bonus. The added bonus to having a lot of boats is it makes your military large which deters others attacking you. Again, a turtle strategy.

2) the memento to reduce naval maintenance seems important. Also good synergy with Harriet's Lantern. So running those two should help.

3) Unlike most other leaders, she's at the mercy of a game setting. Personally, I love the Contuinity setting; I never liked the hard resets of ages, and this is more in line of classic Civ. So I would be fine with playing her, but there's many that love the original Regroup and is more in line with Civ 7's philosophy, so I can see how this leader is a No-Go for others.

She comes across as very limited. Not really a leader you can just pop into any civ and play however you want and just reap her benefits.

Those that have played her: how does the constant espionage affect the other AI players? I would imagine getting caught does sour their relationship with you. Did it turn into declared wars against you? Can you really play a peaceful game or are you pissing off the world? I've pretty much ignored espionage since launch.

 

[Tuvok694]

I am sure, we will see some videos on youtube (Ursa Ryan for example) where the title (again) sounds something like "completely overpowered", "totally broken" or even "best leader of the game".

I knew it...

 

[stealth_nsk]

BTW, I tried her with Tonga on new map and it went way better than with Carthage. Tonga additional influence really helps starting the cycle of espionage..

 

[Krikkit1]

I knew it...

That’s more an issue with how they do unit maintenance deductions. They should have it as +X% gold to Unit maintenance (Like with building/specialist maintenance deductions)

 

[uppi]

So although she is listed as Militaristic, Diplomatic, one of her questlines give cultural attribute points. Is this intended? She can also get a bonus to wonder production in Antiquity. I have not tried it yet, but with a civ like Egypt she could be quite a decent wonder builder. While using espionage to get all the tech requirements.

 

[UWHabs]

That’s more an issue with how they do unit maintenance deductions. They should have it as +X% gold to Unit maintenance (Like with building/specialist maintenance deductions)

Yeah, that plus mementos that aggressively boost things even more.

 

[Krikkit1]

Yeah, that plus mementos that aggressively boost things even more.

That’s the issue…if you do a -X or -X% to maintenance, you can stack multiple to get 0 maintenance. If you do +X%, there will always be some maintenance.

 

[disjointaccount]

Ran my second game with her to finish getting her to level 10 earlier. I didn't realise it until halfway through but I literally played her as a blank leader (save for maybe some turns where I probably had boats incidentally sitting on districts while they were waiting a couple turns to go somewhere). It's not that I think she's terrible; it's just that her kit is not for me at all. I don't really care for espionage and I almost never make units without having a fight to send them to.

I actually really liked espionage in 6; I know one of the goals with 7 was streamlining a lot of micro out to save on endgame tedium, but I think 6's spy system was miles better than how it works in 7. I just don't care about spending influence to steal a handful of a yield when:
A) I probably don't need to in the first place
B) If I want to reduce another leader's yields and boost my own, I can spend that influence on war support and take a city or two, which is also much more fun and engaging than clicking a "run espionage" button.

If espionage ever receives a rework of some kind that makes it more fun to me, espionage-focused leaders will probably immediately become more appealing to me.

 

[UWHabs]

I don't mind espionage, but I do think it's a very hidden and passive system. Most of the time I forget to renew my counter-spies only when I get stolen from. But when you actually use it, it can be worth like a free tech every 15-20 turns, which can be pretty nice.