Leader Discussion - Yi Sun-Sin First Impressions

[disjointaccount]

Rounding out Brush and Blade, we have Yi Sun-Sin.
His leader ability is Samdo Sugun Tongjesa, which is a four-parter (though I'd argue five):

• Can construct fleet commanders after studying Discipline in Antiquity. Receive a fleet commander once Discipline is unlocked and a harbor with ocean access has been constructed
• Defeating an enemy with a naval unit provides science equal to 100% of the defeated unit's combat strength
• On construction of a science building, receive 10XP to all fleet commanders
• +3 gold per age for every fleet commander XP earned in combat

His attributes are Militaristic and Scientific, giving him access to the Military Aid and Research Collaboration endeavours.
He has a coastal starting bias.
Playing as Hideyoshi unlocks Goryeo Korea (otherwise unlocked by having 10 unique improvements) in the Exploration Age, and Joseon Korea (otherwise unlocked by having 16 specialists) and Great Britain (otherwise unlocked by improving 2 Fleet Commanders) in the Modern Age. These connections should also determine (some of) his options for syncretism.
As an AI leader, his agenda is 13 Ships: Increase Relationship with civilizations that have a minimum amount of Naval Units and Fortification Buildings. Decrease Relationship with civilizations that don't meet these minimums.

So what are everyone's thoughts? Likes/dislikes? Strengths and weaknesses? Fun strategies? Good civs to pair him with?

 

[disjointaccount]

And his mementos:

I'm sure Trung Trac likes the look of Janggeom...

 

[disjointaccount]

My immediate first impressions upon reading his kit are that:
A) He looks fun
B) That Great Britain unlock might be the single most redundant unlock in the game; you'd have to be actively avoiding engaging with his kit to not have two fleet commanders
C) Welcome back, Harald Hadrada leader agenda. It's an interesting one though; correct me if I'm wrong but I think this is the first time we've had an agenda that pertains to a set threshold rather than just focusing on whoever has the most or least of a certain thing?

Looking forward to playing him, though I'm awfully busy these days and on big KSP and Minecraft kicks with what gaming time I do have, so not sure when I'll get around to fitting some games in.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

He's not really my style, but I think he will be a fun option for playing as Pirates when I feel compelled to do so.

 

[Hellenism Salesman]

It seems to me he has almost no reason to ever pick one of the Korean civs and should probably always go Carthage -> Chola -> your choice

 

[Disgustipated]

I still prefer to remain mostly historical in my games, although occasionally I experiment, so I'm just playing him with Goryeo.

First impression, while you do get that free fleet commander, actually building one is hugely expensive. I really would like 2, but it will have to wait I suppose.

 

[Disgustipated]

That promotion to extend naval bombardment range +1 is huuuuuge. Being able to bombard a city 1 tile in with galleys is a game changer. Xerxes gave me a scare early, but now it's time for revenge of the galleys.

edit: can confirm the First Blood triumph applies to fleet commanders as well. Nice.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

It seems to me he has almost no reason to ever pick one of the Korean civs and should probably always go Carthage -> Chola -> your choice

Having the Joseon unique commander be a fleet commander could have helped.

 

[Disgustipated]

LOL, I forgot galleys occupy the hex the enemy naval unit was defeated in, so my galley travelled 2 hexes across land to a 1 tile lake when I attacked an enemy naval unit. Looks like that's going to be a load from auto save. I don't want my galley stuck in that 1 tile lake (or the town center of Parsa).

It was quite hilarious seeing a galley travel across land.

 

[Kwami]

LOL, I forgot galleys occupy the hex the enemy naval unit was defeated in, so my galley travelled 2 hexes across land to a 1 tile lake when I attacked an enemy naval unit. Looks like that's going to be a load from auto save. I don't want my galley stuck in that 1 tile lake (or the town center of Parsa).

It was quite hilarious seeing a galley travel across land.

That sounds like a bug.

 

[Hellenism Salesman]

Wait a minute, Yi Sun-Sin’s Fleet Commander XP on Science Building construction actually synergizes incredibly well with Joseon, who can have Science Buildings in all of their Settlements

 

[Disgustipated]

That sounds like a bug.

Not necessarily, more of a quirk of having fleet commanders so early, since I was only able to do this because of the fleet commander extra bombard range promotion. Maybe melee naval units did this in Exploration age I don't remember since I rarely used melee/light naval units in exploration.

 

[Kwami]

Not necessarily, more of a quirk of having fleet commanders so early, since I was only able to do this because of the fleet commander extra bombard range promotion. Maybe melee naval units did this in Exploration age I don't remember since I rarely used melee/light naval units in exploration.

But I think it would be a bug in exploration, too. Boats shouldn't go over land to occupy a city tile and then get stuck. If it's not a bug, then it's bad design.

 

[Disgustipated]

Perhaps. Even just as funny, later in antiquity I passed through either an enemy city that I hadn't conquered yet, or a mountain when my quadrireme took out an enemy embarked horseman. I'm not sure which tile I magically passed through since it was kind of in between those two hexes/tiles. I think it's safe to say I shouldn't be able to pass through enemy territory like that, or pass through a mountain.

Only bad thing is it leaves my quadrireme quite isolated until I'm able to take over Cincinnati.

I'm guessing the game was always like this, but I never noticed since I don't do that much naval warfare, although I do do some in Exploration and a little in modern. But with this leader, it becomes more apparent since you are using promoted commanders in antiquity.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

I just found a discrepency in Yi's ability description. It says +3 Gold per Age for every Fleet Commander XP earned in combat. Well, I was able to earn the Gold with an Army Commander as well.

EDIT: Never mind, it was from a momento

 

[uppi]

Yi Sun-Sin + Carthage = 3 range battleships galleys in Antiquity. Pretty much unstoppable on an Archipelago map. I would say, the strongest naval leader in Antiquity by far. But you do need a map with enough coast and targets on the coast to really make use of his ability.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

He's pretty nice with Pirates. Gold, GDP, and Science for curbstomping coast adjacent Independent Powers and more gold if I bring an Army Commander along for the ride

 

[Krikkit1]

But I think it would be a bug in exploration, too. Boats shouldn't go over land to occupy a city tile and then get stuck. If it's not a bug, then it's bad design.

They should probably change the Light so
1. they are only able to bombard land tiles (naval require contact)
2. they don’t get any range upgrades

 

[Disgustipated]

First time I ever got the triumph for 8 promotions for a fleet commander before. Promotions aren't usually easy to come by on marathon speed. So I do like that. But of course the downside to leaders like this is you almost have to be constantly at war to get the full benefits from them. And while I like doing a little bit of war in my games, I just don't like constantly being at war. I currently have a level 10 fleet commander in modern which is the most promotions I have ever gotten, army or fleet commander.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

First time I ever got the triumph for 8 promotions for a fleet commander before. Promotions aren't usually easy to come by on marathon speed. So I do like that. But of course the downside to leaders like this is you almost have to be constantly at war to get the full benefits from them. And while I like doing a little bit of war in my games, I just don't like constantly being at war. I currently have a level 10 fleet commander in modern which is the most promotions I have ever gotten, army or fleet commander.

I got 8 on a Buccaneer today on Marathon speed, mostly by hunting IP camps. I'm not even using the government that gives free promotions.