[LP] Leader Pass Pack 3: Rulers of China (Jan. 2023) - Patch Notes Discussion

[DImensiondog]

I really hope I get to play this at some point. From what I can tell, still no Mac update yet.

Check the post about aspyr. I believe they are delaying the leader pass and releasing all at once at the end. This is for Mac and iOS. Check the post to be sure though

 

[Navelgazer]

Ah, so... that's frustrating. Thanks for the info, though!

Grrrrr...

 

[BigChinggis]

I really hope I get to play this at some point. From what I can tell, still no Mac update yet.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1616190548766851072

Sorry mate, think you'll be waiting a while...

Edit: sorry, just saw someone else replied

 

[fy00sh]

Could someone take a screenshot of the bottom of the KublaiKhan_Vietnam_Monopolies_MODE.xml file? I want to cringe a little bit.

(I can't access the game files)

ask and ye shall receive
edit: better images

Spoiler :

 

[Infixo]

Monopolies Mode contains also another change - a huge boost for improvements and luxuries, plus Currency and Economics and are made "favored".
Luxuries from standard 1.5 to 100 (sic!), and Improvements from standard 3.0 to 10.0 - this is really huge. AI may start building just improvements. From my tests values at ~4-5 are enough.
I am not sure those change are necessary. The AI will build Industries, because this is what my mod already fixed. But I don't think that AI will build Corporations, because that is not covered by my mod (it needs core fix).
I am curious to see the results.
Also, "favored" flag for technologies does not work...

 

[Noble Zarkon]

@boesthius is reporting that Yongle is "broken".

I've just finished streaming my game with him, the yields for large cities are insane - 5 size 10 cities = 50 science a turn!

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

Sadly, I am far less inclined to play the game as long as the Monopolies add-on remains totally bugged (and before anyone asks, yes I have tried several mods that claim to fix it, but its only ever a partial fix at best-which is understandable given the inability of modders to make changes to the actual AI). Next to Barbarian Clans, that NFP update was the one with the greatest potential IMO, so its sad that its still not working after all this time.

 

[AntSou]

@fy00sh thanks!

Monopolies Mode contains also another change - a huge boost for improvements and luxuries, plus Currency and Economics and are made "favored".
Luxuries from standard 1.5 to 100 (sic!), and Improvements from standard 3.0 to 10.0 - this is really huge. AI may start building just improvements. From my tests values at ~4-5 are enough.
I am not sure those change are necessary. The AI will build Industries, because this is what my mod already fixed. But I don't think that AI will build Corporations, because that is not covered by my mod (it needs core fix).
I am curious to see the results.
Also, "favored" flag for technologies does not work...

Too much depressing information in this post. From the perspetive of a PC player like myself, it would have been better if they didn't touch anything at all (since the only change worth having is your fix, which I already have).

This also puts Ed's comment about fixing bugs in a bad light. Because the Corporations bug is one of the most often mentioned by players, and this was the amount of effort that was put into it.

Unless the AI is actually building Corporations now? That's the one thing that matters and only them can fix.

 

[Infixo]

@AntSou Well... if the newest changes would not help then I'd probably revert them in my mod But some testing is needed to see how AI behaves now.

 

[IvoryPavane]

I was under the impression that Yongles ability activated once he was over the 10 threshold. So 15 pop would yield 5 science culture etc etc.

10 population = 10 science, culture and 20 gold just seems so absurd to me. It seems to be it’s supposed to be encouraging tall play, but without any limitation - it’s just going to be optimal to continue to play wide and prioritise infrastructure.

Consider the 10% yield Civs Maya and Kongo, they would need to have 100 science, culture and 200 gold coming out of a city to see those numbers and that comes with a malus!? I know that also extends to production, food and faith etc but even those considered they are never getting close to those numbers, and Yongle can plop those cities wherever he wants. Even Menelik would need 70 faith per city to be hitting those numbers, I can’t conceive of something even *more* potent than the NFP Civs haha.

This ability really feels like it could have used a drawback. Especially when Tokugawa has 6 tile limit for a much less potent ability.

 

[UWHabs]

I was under the impression that Yongles ability activated once he was over the 10 threshold. So 15 pop would yield 5 science culture etc etc.

10 population = 10 science, culture and 20 gold just seems so absurd to me. It seems to be it’s supposed to be encouraging tall play, but without any limitation - it’s just going to be optimal to continue to play wide and prioritise infrastructure.

Consider the 10% yield Civs Maya and Kongo, they would need to have 100 science, culture and 200 gold coming out of a city to see those numbers and that comes with a malus!? I know that also extends to production, food and faith etc but even those considered they are never getting close to those numbers, and Yongle can plop those cities wherever he wants. Even Menelik would need 70 faith per city to be hitting those numbers, I can’t conceive of something even *more* potent than the NFP Civs haha.

This ability really feels like it could have used a drawback. Especially when Tokugawa has 6 tile limit for a much less potent ability.

It does take some effort to activate - 10 pop isn't trivial. But yeah, it's definitely a strong ability. I do wonder a little bit on what kind of fun challenges you could run with him. He seems like a good candidate to try a no-district game with. Or impose some self-challenges, like saying that you need to grow all your cities to size 10 before you can expand to the next spot or weird stuff like that. I would guess that he could get some pretty solid yields just from that base ability combined with a carefully laid out Great Wall, probably more than enough culture to compete.

 

[DogeEnricoDandolo]

It does take some effort to activate - 10 pop isn't trivial. But yeah, it's definitely a strong ability. I do wonder a little bit on what kind of fun challenges you could run with him. He seems like a good candidate to try a no-district game with. Or impose some self-challenges, like saying that you need to grow all your cities to size 10 before you can expand to the next spot or weird stuff like that. I would guess that he could get some pretty solid yields just from that base ability combined with a carefully laid out Great Wall, probably more than enough culture to compete.

10 pop isn't trivial with other people, but it is trivial with him. His projects basically grant him an unlimited way to earn Food, Faith and Gold. There is no cooldown on any of these projects, no district requirement. They don't even have a set cost like other projects, so you don't even need to wait for this production conversion to kick in. Once you get your aqueduct + IZ combo, reaching 10 pop is not only easy, it is extremely reliable.
I am having my first run with him, and I can already feel he rivals the Khmer for being totally busted. The Khmer gains 1 Faith per pop with Aqueduct, and 0.5 Culture with Prasat (which requires HS + Shrine btw), and this dude gains 1 Science, 1 Culture and 2 Gold per pop AND the easy tool to unlock the restriction. Not to mention, if you don't want to grow your cities for some reasons, your satellite cities can still be useful by just running gold and faith projects, which can be used anywhere else.

 

[nzcamel]

Well thank you for your work on civ 6.

@Infixo
Hear hear!!

 

[Tuvok694]

Can't say much yet because in my first attempts after the China DLC, barbs ruined everything AGAIN. Oh how much I would want to play a science or culture or religion focused early game strategy and not being forced to build units, units, units to defend against those little red maniacs.

 

[Pfeffersack]

Sadly, I am far less inclined to play the game as long as the Monopolies add-on remains totally bugged (and before anyone asks, yes I have tried several mods that claim to fix it, but its only ever a partial fix at best-which is understandable given the inability of modders to make changes to the actual AI). Next to Barbarian Clans, that NFP update was the one with the greatest potential IMO, so its sad that its still not working after all this time.

While I understand your frustration, it might be worth to note that silently Firaxis seemed to have touched the mode with this patch (and using a fix @Infixo developed before plus making other changes):

[LP] - Leader Pass Pack 3: Rulers of China (Jan. 2023) - Patch Notes Discussion

There are some changes in the KublaiKhan_Vietnam_Monopolies_MODE.xml file. The AI should be better at improving tiles with monopolies&corporations mode. I've found no other major changes, except some text fixes and Nader Shah +3 Faith bugfix.

forums.civfanatics.com

[LP] - Leader Pass Pack 3: Rulers of China (Jan. 2023) - Patch Notes Discussion

There are some changes in the KublaiKhan_Vietnam_Monopolies_MODE.xml file. The AI should be better at improving tiles with monopolies&corporations mode. I've found no other major changes, except some text fixes and Nader Shah +3 Faith bugfix.

forums.civfanatics.com

[LP] - Leader Pass Pack 3: Rulers of China (Jan. 2023) - Patch Notes Discussion

I really hope I get to play this at some point. From what I can tell, still no Mac update yet. Check the post about aspyr. I believe they are delaying the leader pass and releasing all at once at the end. This is for Mac and iOS. Check the post to be sure though

forums.civfanatics.com

Too early to say in what shape the AI is now (they e.g. might still fail on the Coorporation/Monopoly part, even if they properly "industrialize" in the early game), but at least the foundation is there now.

 

[AntSou]

Can't say much yet because in my first attempts after the China DLC, barbs ruined everything AGAIN. Oh how much I would want to play a science or culture or religion focused early game strategy and not being forced to build units, units, units to defend against those little red maniacs.

You mentioned this in another thread but I don't understand how this keeps happening to you. You play Emperor/Immortal, right?

Are you not blocking their Scouts on time? I usually get my own scout and an extra warrior or slinger and that's enough on immortal to handle barbarian threats. I might keep some gold just in case I need to purchase one in an emergency.

I never used the option to ask barbarians not to attack my cities, but perhaps that would work?

Also, playing with new Qin you would actually want this to happen. So maybe just try him and get the barbarians for yourself.

 

[IvoryPavane]

Can't say much yet because in my first attempts after the China DLC, barbs ruined everything AGAIN. Oh how much I would want to play a science or culture or religion focused early game strategy and not being forced to build units, units, units to defend against those little red maniacs.

With the new Qin they could be your little red maniacs!

Got a message this morning from my multiplayer group that Yongle is insta-ban lol.

Played my first game on Wu and I definitely think it’s a sleeper ability. Stealing 50% of a tech from a Civ while also taking 50% of that cities science and culture is a LOT of science to gain every four turns (once you are set up). But it’s balanced very nicely against the RNG of your spies dying or being captured

 

[Noble Zarkon]

Got a message this morning from my multiplayer group that Yongle is insta-ban lol.

There are so many OP Civs not sure why you need to ban anyone

 

[Ufish]

I would image in the answer is yes to both questions.

I tested it and the answer is no.That's disappointing!

 

[IvoryPavane]

There are so many OP Civs not sure why you need to ban anyone

A very fair point! But I don’t make the rules haha, I just follow them blindly