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Leaders and Armies

Discussion in 'Civ3 - General Discussions' started by timerover51, Mar 1, 2020.

  1. timerover51

    timerover51 Deity

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    For those or you who have played for years without ever having a Leader or an Army, or have had only very few of them, I have some good news for you.

    If you download or have from a disc the original version of TETurkhan's Test of Time scenario, certain countries can build Leaders and Armies like regular units, with Leaders being even better, as they cost nothing and require no population. The civilizations are the Mongols, China, Japan, Korea, Tibet, Cambodia, and Indonesia. Indonesia starts with Bronze Working and Map Making, so after building your first city, set the production queue to Leaders, Colossus, Leaders, The Great Lighthouse, and five turns into the game you have the Colossus boosting your revenue, Spearmen instead of simply Warriors to build, with the Great Lighthouse boosting your Galleys across the seas. It is even better, as the Leaders can be used to speed construction of all of the buildings, not just the Wonders. All the Leaders costs is one turn for production.

    Basically, there is a quirk in the program that means if you give a unit the Leader characteristics without calling it a "Leader" specifically, all of the restrictions of being created by a battle are bypassed. These Leaders can also be used to uild the Army unit very nicely. If you cannot win at Test of Time with one of those civilizations, I would be very surprised.

    There are quite a few othe rways of geting Leader and Army units, but those do require the use of the editor. The simplest way for the Army unit is to uncheck the "Requires a Victorious Army" box for the Military Academy and Pentagon, which will build the Army unit without the Leader. If you check the "Build Armies without a Leader" for the Heroic Epic and Art of War, those can be used a well. Then check the "Finish Improvements" box for the Army, and have at it. That will work for all versions of Cin3.

    Then again, you can simply set the Test of Time scenario so that all of the civilizations benefit from the Leaders unit. That does even the playing field a bit.
     
  2. vmxa

    vmxa Deity Supporter

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    If you want mil leaders in C3C, just play on a huge map as AW on say Emperor or DG. If you are a real crazy, like me, play on a 250x250 with 31 civs.
     
  3. Quintillus

    Quintillus Archiving Civ3 Content Supporter

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    Hmm, let me see if I follow correctly. I've loaded up TETurkhan's Test of Time, version 1.93, in the editor, and see the "Armies" unit, available to the civs you listed. There is indeed a "Leader" unit available to a number of civilizations (although in fact the inverse of the ones you mentioned, in the BIX I am looking at), at 0 cost. But in the standard conquests.biq, the Leader unit also shows up as available to all civs, and at 0 cost. The one obvious differences is in TETurkhan's, the Leader is a Foot Unit. TETurkhan also has a "Leaders" unit, which appears to be available to no-one, except as an upgrade from a Leader.

    Alas, I receive a message about a missing Raptor INI file when I try to load the BIX in-game. I vaguely recall there being some units that only shipped with PTW, but not Conquests, and am guessing this is one of those. I probably already sorted this out at least once on a previous Civ installation (currently I'm using the vanilla CD + Conquests CD, which has traditionally been my go-to). It also occurs to me that you might mean

    It's certainly intriguing. I suppose at this point I'd like to verify if it really is checking the unit name - stranger things have happened - or if there's some combination of flags that is relevant.

    Another relevant detail may be if there's a Conquests version of TETurkhan's scenario that I'm missing. Looking at the thread, and TETurkhan's most recent postings, I think 1.93 is the latest version (aside from 2.0+ versions of the maps), but am not sure about that. I've only really explored his maps previously.
     
  4. timerover51

    timerover51 Deity

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    I am using the original one that came with the Civilizations Complete disc. I will need to check at to what version that is. I will post the scenario file that I am using, which I have modified a bit, along with the original file. Is sounds like you are using an updated version with may not allow the changes that I have found, but which can be fairly easily changed to allow for them. I also have modified the Vanilla Game to do the same thing, along with modifying the Conquest version to allow for the Leader uint to be built as a standard unit. I just will need to get on my Windows laptop to do that.
     
  5. Quintillus

    Quintillus Archiving Civ3 Content Supporter

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    Gotcha. I was not using Civ Complete, as my CD install had Conquests as the expansion disc, installed along with Vanilla. I shall take a look at Complete on my laptop where I have the Steam version of Complete installed, and may have more success there.
     
  6. Scratcher

    Scratcher Emperor

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    In my current game, C3C, huge, Emperor level, with Russia, I have so far generated 22 Military Great Leaders by 1275 AD.

    Scratcher
     
  7. Spoonwood

    Spoonwood Grand Philosopher

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    How strong would non-oscillating war be under similar conditions for generating leaders?

    "The first civ met must have war declared on them during initial diplomacy. Each later civ met gets added, in order, to a list. When the first AI civ on the list is eliminated, war must be declared on the second. As each is eliminated, the next must be declared on before the end of the turn. Other wars are allowed, and alliances are encouraged. Sandbagging or not finishing off a defeated foe simply to not go to war with the next one on the list is illegal. When two or more civs are met simultaneously (via contact sale, perhaps), it is player’s choice which order to declare on them."
     
  8. vmxa

    vmxa Deity Supporter

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    Not tried that, but should give plenty of leaders. I often will take an easy way and rather than go AW, I do must DoW first civ. Can never make peace, with anyone, regardless of who starts it. The key for lots of leaders is to have civs at war as much as possible. This ensures they make lots of troops, so you have lots of chances to get a leader. My scheme, ends up being AW, just not as quickly. I tend to Dow the first 3 civs.

    So all the civs build mostly troops and send them forward. You make lots of elites, which leads to leaders. AWDG with lots of civs is a rough game on a pan map and you can lose the game in the middle ages. Sooner, if you get a bad start, I mean many contacts right away. AWE can be lost, but it takes a really poor start, again too many contacts very early, even with horses and iron.

    I am sure you know all that, but some others may not have played Always Wars or its variants. Stay well.
     
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  9. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

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    There are also a few of the 9 scenarios that come with the Conquests expansion, where certain tribes start with pre-located leaders (or armies?) on the map. For example Rome and Carthage in the Rise of Rome scenario as well as France and England in the Napoleon scenario.
     
  10. tjs282

    tjs282 Socially distancing since 1975

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    AFAIK, in RoR everyone starts with an Army (not an MGL) -- or at least, every playable Civ(?) does. Greece definitely also gets one, so it would seem like a reasonable assumption that Persia does, too.

    (Assumption is because I've only played RoR as the Romans and Greeks to date; and although I conquered Persia as a Greek Emperor, I don't specifically remember fighting a Persian Army).
     
  11. Civinator

    Civinator Blue Lion Supporter

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    When looking in the editor, I can confirm, that in RoR Persia is starting with a veteran army called Darius and be placed in Melitene.

     

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