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Leaders U Hate

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by MarigoldRan, Jul 16, 2011.

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The Worst Leaders in Existence

  1. Charlemagne of HRE

    20 vote(s)
    17.4%
  2. Genghis Khan of Mongols

    1 vote(s)
    0.9%
  3. Kublai Khan of Mongols

    1 vote(s)
    0.9%
  4. Montezuma of the Aztecs

    22 vote(s)
    19.1%
  5. Tokugawa of the Japanese

    36 vote(s)
    31.3%
  6. Boudica of the Celts

    6 vote(s)
    5.2%
  7. Other

    29 vote(s)
    25.2%
  1. Mylene

    Mylene Deity

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2011
    Messages:
    4,000
    Location:
    Pangea
    I think we had a topic about Sitting Bull before, he is pretty good on Deity.
    And i would think in multi player too.
    Decent starting techs (you just wish fishing wouldn't be there for the old x-bows rush bulb :D ), philo is the best trait in the game imo, and you don't have to worry about getting barb defense while skipping the useless archery and doing the useful BW instead.
    Of course on easier diff. where you want to rush with axes, his UU is horrible. On deity it is one of my favorites.
     
  2. Keilah

    Keilah King

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2008
    Messages:
    785
    Yah I kinda like SB in multiplayer. I remember once a Kublai Khan invaded me with ~30 keshiks... I think I lost 2-3 units, and he tried to avoid + pillage :D Having instant access to Formation on longbows is nice ^^
     
  3. Sir Penguinboy

    Sir Penguinboy Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2011
    Messages:
    15
    Location:
    New York (THE STATE, NOT THE CITY)
    I actually hate Isabella the most because of how much she hates you, even if im half way across the world shell get open border treaties simply so she can send a stack of guys to attack me.
     
  4. coanda

    coanda Emperor

    Joined:
    May 12, 2009
    Messages:
    1,793
    Isabella is awesome; she'd be on my short list of leaders I'm happiest to play with and against.

    If she founds an early religion (which is fairly common), you can rely on her religion being one of the major power blocs in the game because of how hard she works to spread it; your diplomatic predictions are simplified immensely. Adopt her religion, and she's your best friend forever. Want to trade for her monopoly techs? Not a problem, it's very easy to get to Friendly with her. Want someone to throw at an AI who is starting to run away with the game? Again, not a problem; just use spies to swap their religion so Izzy sees them as heathens and she'll be easy to bribe. Want someone to build all the missionaries so you don't have to actually spread your religion yourself? You can count on her. Going for diplomatic victory? Easy to win her votes. One of the 3-4 AIs I'm happiest to meet most games.

    Playing as Isabella, you get an extremely strong pair of leader traits, and good-but-not-great UB and UU. Starting techs nothing to write home about; on land-locked starts they're actually kinda terrible... but I'd still rate her as in the top-third of leaders to play as.
     
  5. GenerallyGreat

    GenerallyGreat Prince

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2009
    Messages:
    359
    I love Isabella's UU.
     
  6. shyuhe

    shyuhe Deity

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2006
    Messages:
    6,062
    Location:
    Gone fishing for the summer
    Isabella's UB is pretty awesome. Combine it with theocracy and you get CR3 trebs or cannons, which shred cities. It's more effective at slower speeds where the movement speed of siege doesn't hurt as much.
     
  7. Um the Muse

    Um the Muse King

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2009
    Messages:
    922
    Location:
    surrounded in the USA
    Plus, she's kinda pwetty :love:

    For some reason, I hate, hate, hate the Romans. It's probably not completely irrational, but I refuse to play them.

    Their techs are decent, don't get me wrong, but I don't war if I can help it, and the UB are pretty pathetic. As an AI, they seem to be rather unpredictable as far as how powerful they're going to be.
     
  8. Eldariel

    Eldariel Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2010
    Messages:
    19
    Toku, bloody hell. Nothing like a start where your only immediate neighbour is Toku; without Open Borders he'll block all your trade and religion spread and such denying you entirely, and being Protective/Aggressive, he's a pain to rush out early. And without religion or such, basically the only feasible option for getting him to Pleased is bloody giftcity, which isn't my favorite thing ever to do if blocked.

    Oh, and he's a worthless techer thus being useless as a trading partner if you do get him to Pleased, and he's a mediocre leader to play as (sure, his Rifles are godlike but for that you pay by having no economic traits, no UB, bad starting tech and UU in an era rather hostile to offensive war).
     
  9. mtr12

    mtr12 Prince

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2008
    Messages:
    596
    CPU Charlemagne is such a gigantic toolbag that he gives the Jersey Shore crew a run for their money. Probably the strongest AI in the game.


    The only thing redeeming about him is his amazing UB, and I have to admit that I've had some fun games with him.
     
  10. AJ11

    AJ11 Emperor

    Joined:
    May 13, 2011
    Messages:
    1,013
    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    Right or wrong, my friend, does not matter. None of them are RELEVENT.

    The reason why is actually quite simple:

    <snip> In other words, they were responding to something they themselves made up, things which I have never said.

    Read what I have posted carefully and without any preconcieved notions.

    At no time did I say that my way of playing was the most efficient or the best or anything of the like. I merely said that I am currently happy and having fun playing that way. I even alluded to this when Moron Number 2 popped his head up. Moron Number 1 took immediate offence to me having fun and tried to exert his way of playing on me with sarcasm and aggression.



    However, if you want an answer to why I was playing that way, your reason number 3 is right on the money. I was fighting against swordsmen, pikemen and trebs with infantry, artillery and cavalry. It was purely GG farming, and the sheer fun of annihilating stacks and stacks of units with virtually complete immunity.

    The xp gained is both hilarity and has a useful side. Getting a stack of 24 cavalry and 24 artillery to 70+ and 40+ xp respectively is hilarity. Sending those against a better tech'd fool who declares on you next? Useful :lol:
     
  11. Keilah

    Keilah King

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2008
    Messages:
    785
    I always have the most problems with Sury, Zara, and Gilgamesh.
     
  12. LeftAdjoint

    LeftAdjoint Warlord

    Joined:
    May 22, 2011
    Messages:
    273
    Location:
    Berkeley
    For those those following closely, the colloquial phrase "thank you very much" is being summarized as "sarcasm and aggression". :crazyeye:
     
  13. Sir Penguinboy

    Sir Penguinboy Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2011
    Messages:
    15
    Location:
    New York (THE STATE, NOT THE CITY)
    I know, I usually just somehow end up with a different religion than her before i meet her, and if i adopt her religion i usually are at odds with my neighbors becaus they dont like her for the religion thing. Come to think of it, I can't really remember a time i played as her so maybe ill try it.
     
  14. Nydaeli

    Nydaeli Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2011
    Messages:
    34
    Creative AIs tend to be very effective overall. I'd add Willem and Catherine to this list, although probably not Louis, Hatshepsut, Kublai or Pericles.
     
  15. Keilah

    Keilah King

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2008
    Messages:
    785
    Thing is all those AIs tend to not make very many units and just die easily. Except maybe Catherine, but for some reason I hardly ever see her in my games.
     
  16. mtr12

    mtr12 Prince

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2008
    Messages:
    596
    Yeah it's funny, huh? The BTS leaders tend to be the best. Hell, at this point the Vanilla leaders are predictable memes.


    I think Creative makes an AI a lot stronger since it sorta mitigates their horrible city placement skills.


    Eh, I usually only play on Normal since Epic is a drag, but it sounds like a fun strategy.
     
  17. plasmacannon

    plasmacannon Emperor

    Joined:
    May 5, 2010
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    1,677
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Orlando, Florida
    Wow! Some of those are excellent leaders!
    Kublai is awesome. I have done well with Boudica and Genghis too.
    Maybe, you don't war enough to like them yet.
    Where are Saladin, Mao, or some of the other PRO leaders?
    If, I find Toko or Monte it usually means a rough game.
    Charlie certainly isn't the best leader, but, worst?
    Chop out early settlers to claim good land first, then, stock them PRO archers and pay for them with a Rathaus? Follow this with Warring alot to rack up the GGs.
    Later on, you are Drafting PRO riflemen with 3+GGs, add in barracks plus vas. and you have at least 11xp on each one, 13xp with Theo.
    Granted, he's not FIN, ORG, IND, or PHI.
    For a middle teir leader, I found him workable.
     
  18. MarigoldRan

    MarigoldRan WARLORD

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2011
    Messages:
    2,349
    The problem with the Keshik is that it's not any better than a HA. The Ger is ok, but even then, you won't ever manage early level 4 HAs.

    As for HA rushing, the Carthaginians are several times better. CHA is very strong with their Numidians, and FIN is stronger than AGG, which is mostly useless for HAs. The Mongols would be much better with CHA + CRE or CHA + IMP. In which case, they'd probably be among the top war-mongerers (the Ger, with CHA, and Keshiks, and IMP would be insane. Imagine Cyrus of the Mongols). Of course, imagining the existence of a charismatic Mongol is difficult.

    To play as, Mao is fine, though he's better at Marathon/Huge. He's also not a particularly unpleasant AI.

    Charlie is among the worst to play because he lacks any good starting techs. His UU is bad, IMP and PRO are the two weakest traits, and his only redeeming quality is his UB. You're pretty much forced to get archery at higher difficulty levels, but that means you're not getting something else that's important, like BW or AH.

    I probably should have added Saladin. But despite his tendencies to turtle, he's pretty pleasant as an AI if you're the same religion. In this respect, he's like Isabella.
     
  19. GenerallyGreat

    GenerallyGreat Prince

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2009
    Messages:
    359
    So much wrong in only 2 sentences.
     
  20. Nick Carpathia

    Nick Carpathia Unleash the HAARP

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2010
    Messages:
    1,064
    Location:
    Romania
    The only reason someone would ever think Keshiks are weak are if you've never played a war of maneuver before, and simply walk your stack of 1-movers at the nearest city on Marathon speed.
     

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