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Leaders

Discussion in 'Communitas Expansion Pack' started by Thalassicus, Oct 1, 2010.

  1. Dunkah

    Dunkah Emperor

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    I feel the Ottomans are OP all ready. I can't quite place my finger on why, but any time I play with them as an enemy they are always at the top of the pile, Always have more science, more culture and more cities, with the large poulations to boot.

    They may start slow but once their Jannisary's get pumping they are almost unstoppable. Adding a huge free fleet to that is crazy OP.
     
  2. Txurce

    Txurce Deity

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    You're not adding a fleet to that. You are taking away the specialist UA in exchange for the fleet UA. Some people may call that a nerf.
     
  3. Hubay

    Hubay Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2011
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    I like the idea of giving Governance to England, but that might require some additional balancing because their UU and UB are pretty powerful.

    I've always thought a slavery UA would be interesting – a production version of Monty's UA where each killed enemy brings in production at the lowest production city. And I think the ottomans are a good contender for this (besides greece and rome, of course). They were pretty successful in converting captured non-muslims; for a while the main core of the janissaries were non-muslim. It would also have strong synergy with his two UU's and aid in expansion, another thing the ottomans were good at.
     
  4. bwoww78

    bwoww78 Warlord

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    FWIW, I agree with Txurce in that:

    1. The naval aspect of current German UA is OP for humans and feels somehow misplaced. Take that away and you still have a strong German UA.
    2. This "naval barb UA" would fit very well with the Ottomans from a realism perspective and for me as a player would make them much more interesting to play (currently, I find it kind of boring). Likewise, as Dunkah notes, I have the same experience with AI Ottomans and their current UA.
    3. If the current Ottoman UA is to be moved anywhere else, I'd argue for England: there is a fit historically, it replaces an otherwise bland UA (increased naval experience), and makes England more versatile on non-naval focused maps.

    I'm also still holding out for the Spain conquistador fix (not dying after settling off-continent), which I think would really boost Isabella for the better.

    just 2 cents, thanks.
     
  5. Txurce

    Txurce Deity

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    Thal mentioned doing just this a while ago. Did it not work, or has it not happened yet?
     
  6. bwoww78

    bwoww78 Warlord

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    i havent noticed it in the version change notes, and i believe it's still on his to do list, but i havent actually tested it. i can try later and update if so.
     
  7. Ahriman

    Ahriman Tyrant

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    I definitely support removing the naval aspect from Germany. I would be ok with adding the ability to England or Spain, but also with just losing it entirely. Not every effect that can be implemented needs to be implemented.
     
  8. Thalassicus

    Thalassicus Bytes and Nibblers

    Joined:
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    German ships were not costing maintenance, a bug fixed in late October. At that time I also added a change where captured barbarian hordes cost 50% more to maintain than regular units. I could increase this further for ships if you feel it'd be warranted... I prefer this economic-nerfing approach instead of removing the option for the player to capture naval barbs.

    Good idea about captured barbs starting with 0 movement points. I've put it on the todo list. I'll also add a restriction where only units of the same domain can capture one another (no archers capturing pirates).

    Conquistadors surviving after city founding is on the long term todo list, but is a little complicated and got delayed when I went on break.
     
  9. wobuffet

    wobuffet Barbarian

    Joined:
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    Elegant solution: makes sense both in terms of theme and gameplay.
    I'd agree with the others that naval horde maintenance should be a bit higher, given how powerful early-game ships are.
     
  10. Txurce

    Txurce Deity

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    I had forgotten that you had boosted unit maintenance. If you're going to keep the barb ships with Germany, this last "domain" change takes care of it sufficiently, I think (meaning the ships don't need an additional gold cost).
     
  11. bwoww78

    bwoww78 Warlord

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    I'm assuming, for clarity, that the increased unit maintanence costs end once the former barbarian unit is upgraded (i.e. barb brute to landschekt). Right?
     
  12. wobuffet

    wobuffet Barbarian

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    This is correct. They only cost more maintenance until they're upgraded (and if you forgot whether you've upgraded a particular unit or not, you can always tell by the Barbarian-y names that Thal gave 'em).
     
  13. Ahriman

    Ahriman Tyrant

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    I think I would have preferred to reduce the flat GA-point boost from building a satrap's court rather than reducing the income per turn.
     
  14. Zaldron

    Zaldron King

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    I agree with this. Both are unique abilities, but I'd like to see a bit more per turn. Did testing reveal that 3-4 per turn was definitely too much (say with around 120 up front)?
     
  15. BlueberryMuffin

    BlueberryMuffin Chieftain

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2009
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    7
    Hi! Just tried this excellent looking mod for the first time and I believe there is a problem with Arabia's civ bonus. I have several luxury resources, yet I'm not getting any +% gold for them, and the luxury resource counter up top says 0 total (yet lists the individual resources if I hover the mouse over).
     
  16. Atlas627

    Atlas627 Deity

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    Same. 3-4 should definitely NOT be too much, as before it gave 2 happiness. Those are simultaneously happiness AND golden age points. The lump amount would have to be huge (like it probably is now) to make anything less than that ok. I think the income shouldve been like it was, but reduce the one-time boost.
     
  17. Txurce

    Txurce Deity

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    BlueberryMuffin,

    Those issues seem random enough that you may want to review the standard laundry list, including what other mods are being used; other versions of VEM in your folder; erasing the Cache and ModUserData if you have started a game with an earlier version.
     
  18. Jorlem

    Jorlem Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2011
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    Out of curiosity, what are people's opinions on Siam? I freely admit that I am not the best player, but they seem to be doing incredibly well in my games, more so then the rest of the AIs. I've attached some Infoaddict screenshots from my current game, which I think show the issue. VEM and Infoaddict are the only mods I have running, incidentally.

    Has this happened in anyone else's games, or is it just me?
     

    Attached Files:

  19. Hubay

    Hubay Chieftain

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    @Jorlem

    That's happened to me to, but I've also seen him rushed by monty or rome and beaten down. It all depends on how they start, how quickly they meet city-states, and if they can keep them as allies. If Siam gets a good chunk of the CS's, he's a beast. Otherwise, just mediocre.
     
  20. Txurce

    Txurce Deity

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    I can second Jorlem's opinion. In my games, Siam often winds up with a huge population, at least partly due to its bonus with maritime friendds. Siam's traits are both powerful and easy for the AI to maximize.
     

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