Leading euro rabbi calls for euro jewish to be given special weapon-carrying licences

[Tahuti]

I have such mental health issues. But they don't make me grab a gun and shoot people.

But maybe if I could simply walk into a shop and buy a gun .... Yea, gun ownership is a bad thing ok? I don't want it to become that easy for me to get a gun and go on a shooting spree.

Mental health issues are societal problems in general. By that I mean that at large it is caused by the environment you live in, and not for most part by things individual to you, although medication can often make it worse, not better.

Most school shooters are known to have used SSRI's. Almost all of them, in fact. Similar incidents that did not involve firearms did involve SSRI's. What are called mental disorders are perhaps more social phenomena than medical phenomena. Which means the fix is largely in the enviroment, not in taking medication, which again often amplifies it.

 

[Commodore]

I have such mental health issues. But they don't make me grab a gun and shoot people.

But maybe if I could simply walk into a shop and buy a gun .... Yea, gun ownership is a bad thing ok? I don't want it to become that easy for me to get a gun and go on a shooting spree.

It's not easy for you if you actually have documented medical issues, just like the Sandy Hook shooter couldn't because of his mental problems.

The common misconception about gun purchases in the US is that one can simply walk into a shop and purchase a gun. There are VERY few places where laws allow one to actually go into a gun shop and walk out with a gun on the same day. Most localities and states have laws requiring background checks and waiting periods for all firearm purchases. And if you purchase a firearm online from an out-of-state supplier, it has to be shipped to a gun shop where it will be held until your background check is complete.

In my opinion, those simple regulations are good enough for keeping guns out of the hands of those who shouldn't have them. The problem though comes with unregistered firearms that are smuggled in and sold on the black market. However, the gun control laws that I keep hearing being proposed by the anti-gun crowd will do absolutely nothing to curtail black market gun sales.

 

[Tahuti]

However, the gun control laws that I keep hearing being proposed by the anti-gun crowd will do absolutely nothing to curtail black market gun sales.

If anything, it will likely make it worse, in the same way drug prohibtion almost never fails to increase drug related crime.

 

[Agent327]

The problem though comes with unregistered firearms that are smuggled in and sold on the black market. However, the gun control laws that I keep hearing being proposed by the anti-gun crowd will do absolutely nothing to curtail black market gun sales.

It's not laws that curtail a black market (which, by definition, already is illegal), but law enforcement.

 

[Tahuti]

It's not laws that curtail a black market (which, by definition, already is illegal), but law enforcement.

Sir yes sir, Captain Obvious!

 

[Agent327]

Apparently it's so obvious both you and Commodore missed it.

 

[Tahuti]

A lot of people are often risking placing themselves on ignore lists of others, generally speaking. Not that it was directed against anyone specific.

 

[Commodore]

It's not laws that curtail a black market (which, by definition, already is illegal), but law enforcement.

I know that and you know that, but apparently the anti-gun crowd doesn't know that since they are the ones who want to legislate all of our problems away.

There are already laws on the books for law enforcement to use to curtail black market gun sales. Just because law enforcement is doing a piss-poor job of enforcing current laws doesn't mean we need more laws. All that will do is create more laws that won't be enforced and, thus, will not be worth the paper they are written on.

Apparently it's so obvious both you and Commodore missed it.

How did I miss it? If anything I am pretty much arguing the same thing you are. If the laws we already have were properly enforced everything would be peachy. Trying to pass more gun control laws solves absolutely nothing except to give the anti-gun crowd a warm-and-fuzzy because the government finally did something about those big, scary, icky, guns.

 

[Bugfatty300]

I think its pretty obvious that the was access to guns in the USA leads to a far higher likelihood of gun crimes, which is evident by the correlation between the two.

No, it's not obvious at all really.

Developed nations of Europe/Canada/USA all have much higher rates of legal gun ownership and liberal firearms laws compared to the rest of the world with a few exceptions. If gun ownership correlates to violence and murder, then Canada, the USA and most of the EU should be the murder capitals of the world.

 

[strijder20]

Everything was better when the House of Orange controlled all of the Netherlands!

^ This

 

[tetley]

Developed nations of Europe/Canada/USA all have much higher rates of legal gun ownership and liberal firearms laws compared to the rest of the world with a few exceptions. If gun ownership correlates to violence and murder, then Canada, the USA and most of the EU should be the murder capitals of the world.

Israel has them all beat. Handily.

 

[warpus]

No, it's not obvious at all really.

Developed nations of Europe/Canada/USA all have much higher rates of legal gun ownership and liberal firearms laws compared to the rest of the world with a few exceptions. If gun ownership correlates to violence and murder, then Canada, the USA and most of the EU should be the murder capitals of the world.

I have a friend who owns guns. He has to jump through hoops to be able to do so. Guns are much much easier to obtain in the U.S. - there's far less red tape.

 

[Farm Boy]

I have a friend who owns guns. He has to jump through hoops to be able to do so. Guns are much much easier to obtain in the U.S. - there's far less red tape.

Varies significantly by state, and sometimes within state, for whatever that's worth.

Comparatively difficult in many areas of Illinois and California as opposed to places like Arizona and Missouri.

Also relatively annoying to acquire .22 ammunition at the moment, crap keeps selling out like they're lining it with cocaine or something.

 

[Bugfatty300]

I have a friend who owns guns. He has to jump through hoops to be able to do so. Guns are much much easier to obtain in the U.S. - there's far less red tape.

"Jumping through hoops" is fairly arbitrary. Your friend should try being a gun owner in country where legally buying/owning/shooting firearms is de facto impossible (or nearly so) for an average person.

The point being that Europe, USA and Canada are pro-gun ownership compared to most other governments. Which is contrary to the claim that higher rates of legal gun ownership "obviously" causes higher incidents of murder and armed criminality.

 

[warpus]

"Jumping through hoops" is fairly arbitrary. Your friend should try being a gun owner in country where legally buying/owning/shooting firearms is de facto impossible (or nearly so) for an average person.

The point being that Europe, USA and Canada are pro-gun ownership compared to most other governments. Which is contrary to the claim that higher rates of legal gun ownership "obviously" causes higher incidents of murder and armed criminality.

My problem with this conclusion is that overall it is far easier to get a gun in the U.S. legally or not. Than in Canada that is. Like I said, there is far more red tape here, regulations, and so on.

And of course the large amounts of guns in your country, as well as the gun culture, are factors. To claim that they are not factors at all is a strange statement to make.

 

[Tahuti]

Well, Warpus, you might be right. Or this map is wrong. This is an overview of gun politics worldwide.

 

[Bugfatty300]

My problem with this conclusion is that overall it is far easier to get a gun in the U.S. legally or not. Than in Canada that is. Like I said, there is far more red tape here, regulations, and so on.

And of course the large amounts of guns in your country, as well as the gun culture, are factors. To claim that they are not factors at all is a strange statement to make.

I didn't say those things aren't factors. I just don't see any obvious correlation between high rates of legal gun ownership and high murder rates etc.

 

[luiz]

Well, Warpus, you might be right. Or this map is wrong. This is an overview of gun politics worldwide.

Spoiler :

It's obvious from that map that some of the world's most violent countries (Mexico, Brazil, South Africa) have pretty restrictive gun laws. They're all far more violent than the USA with its liberal gun laws.

Even comparing within countries of the same level of development the correlation does not hold. Argentina has liberal gun laws and yet is way, way safer than Brazil, where gun laws are very restrictive.

 

[warpus]

I didn't say those things aren't factors. I just don't see any obvious correlation between high rates of legal gun ownership and high murder rates etc.

The correlation is there, what you probably mean to question is causation.

 

[Tahuti]

It's obvious from that map that some of the world's most violent countries (Mexico, Brazil, South Africa) have pretty restrictive gun laws. They're all far more violent than the USA with its liberal gun laws.

Even comparing within countries of the same level of development the correlation does not hold. Argentina has liberal gun laws and yet is way, way safer than Brazil, where gun laws are very restrictive.

The causal relationship is roughly this: Lots of gun crime pushes more extensive gun legislation. Another common motivation, mostly in Asian countries, is to - cynical I know - protect the ones in power.

The most common motivation for more liberal gun legislation is often fear of foreign attacks. Switzerland has liberal gun laws that originated from the time when the Holy Roman Empire was still a threat.