Least Annoying Leaders

[Fei Kelei]

I read the "6 Most Frustrating Leaders to Play Against" thread with some interest, so let's flip it around. Which leaders make the best neighbors, and which are you happy to see in a game and why? It could be because they're weak or predictable or easy to manipulate or whatever.

I have a few I could list, but I'll start with just one: Rameses II. In every game where he's been near me, he's crazy slow to expand (maybe busy with wonders?), which makes him easy to block off, and once he's blocked off, he doesn't really seem to mind and is content to just stay small while you claim all the land he should have taken. He's also super-friendly, and twice recently he's peacefully vassaled to me just as I was finishing building a stack to backstab him. It might be annoying if he has marble or something and snags wonders from you, but he's still probably my favorite neighbor.

Others? Who is your anti-Gilgamesh?

 

[Navarre]

Gandhi is cool to have nearby. He's a doom magnet, any warmonger who lurks around will go after him first. If he survives, he will be willing to trade and easy to take out should he become a threat. I like Hannibal too : easy to befriend and competent enough to be an interesting trade and war partner.

For the record, I like Gilgamesh, he's never been a problem to me. Those I can't stand are the REXers and the tech whores who'll ask you stuff all along the game.

 

[kaltorak]

I usually get along with frederik and bismark. They do lots of units, but usually are on my side.

Ghandi is pretty peaceful, but some players say he almost never attacks. In my games he is not the biggest warmonger, but I see him declare war at least 1 time in every game. He is a pretty bad AI, and gets surrounded in a small territory often. Finally he usually declares war to try to expand, and fails miserably. I almost always play panagea, maybe he would do good in an isolated start

 

[hexem3117]

I've seen Gandhi get very big...if he has room to expand he can get pretty ridiculous. And peaceful.
Frederick is usually pretty peaceful and willing to be friends. I feel like this is a bit strange, but I've had a few games where Pericles was basically my lap-dog, actually helping out in wars and being a good tech partner. Another few games I've had Joao peacefully vassalize to me...at his request. SURE help me out in score Joao!

 

[Navarre]

Oh, and I like Shaka too. Sure, he DoWs to say "Hello", so you first need to tame him, but once he's your vassal or ally he will put his weight into a fight. In attack, at least : usually, he loses cities on one side while conquering on the other, but nobody's perfect.

 

[kaltorak]

Oh, and I like Shaka too. Sure, he DoWs to say "Hello", so you first need to tame him, but once he's your vassal or ally he will put his weight into a fight. In attack, at least : usually, he loses cities on one side while conquering on the other, but nobody's perfect.

I agree. Shaka is a hard oponent. But if he is your vassal, he still fights for you. Other vassals just declare war and don't do anything, or send a stack of 3 untis. In my game yesterday, shaka was my vassal and he sent big stacks of units to my enemies, who weren't even sharing frontiers with him.

 

[Iranon]

Elizabeth: Good tech partner for a while, tends to neglect expansion, gets eaten eventually unless I bail her out.

Frederick: Much of the same... only if he doesn't get eaten, he kills his own population off by turning Germany into a rancid cesspool. I'll take over eventually, it's for his people's own good.

Hatshepsut: This is strange since Creative neighbours are usually unpleasant even if they don't do anything annoying... but I've found her generally inoffensive, a good tech partner and less useless at war than other meeklings.

Both Celts: Likable thugs who won't turn on you if you make some effort to befriend them, while still competent war allies.

Mansa Musa: A good trade partner who will allow one to surge ahead in tech. Vassals easily and is usually not too hard to kill if needed. This one depends on the details though... I like meeting him reasonably soon, but I hate having him on another continent (where he'll increase the tech rate across the board; especially problematic if he gets vassaled by a warmonger) or right in my face (Rushing vs. Skirmishers is extremely unpleasant).

 

[hexem3117]

@ Iranon; why is it that Frederick's population is always so low? Does he favor production? In my past two games I've noticed late game his cities all are less than size 8 even with grassland or ocean food tiles. Pretty strange, I'd say. Completely contrary to victory, IMO.

 

[kochman]

Hannibal: good techer;, easy to make friendly and therefore non-aggressive towards you; will eventually ask to become your vassal

Darius: pretty non-aggressive, though if no one attacks him, he can run away tech-wise... at that point, I usually just attack him, capital first (gaining several wonders in one shot)...

Zara: another good techer who probably won't attack you out of nowhere (though he does ask for a lot), definitely better when not on your border and culture threat

Alex: best war comrade ever... as long as you feed him the occasional tech so he doesn't get too backwards

England: Never really had a problem with any of these leaders

 

[Toshiro126]

I've seen Gandhi get very big...if he has room to expand he can get pretty ridiculous.

My main problem with Gandhi is that sometimes late in the game he will try to sneak in a cultural victory when nobody is paying attention to him. He has already tried to do that in two of my games.

 

[Iranon]

@ hexem3117: He gets overexcited with production multipliers (double-discounted factory UB, coded to focus on production) and tends to have severe health problems. Considering that he does not expand/fight aggressively with the production and thus lacks health resources to compensate, he essentially self-destructs.

In the very rare case where he's got the size and the health resources to not commit suicide by suffocation, he is actually quite good from my experience... but usually it's just painful to watch.

 

[KeloGBites]

Mansa Munsa: He cheats me, but I could have just took 5 of his cities and he still trades with me.

Montezuma: He's my vassal always, I usually feed him back his old cities (excluding capital) once he is a vassal. Makes a very competent war partner as long as I feed him techs that is

Stalin: Strangely enough he isn't aggressive as I expected, quite easy to befriend in my experience, and he puts out some insane production at times.

Hannibal: Very awesome AI, good techer, friendly, and militarily capable.

Wang Kon: My usual religious buddy.

 

[hexem3117]

@ hexem3117: He gets overexcited with production multipliers (double-discounted factory UB, coded to focus on production) and tends to have severe health problems. Considering that he does not expand/fight aggressively with the production and thus lacks health resources to compensate, he essentially self-destructs.

In the very rare case where he's got the size and the health resources to not commit suicide by suffocation, he is actually quite good from my experience... but usually it's just painful to watch.

A thank you sir...that makes sense. I never play as Germany so I didn't know their UB was factory, or discounted for Frederick. He often does seem to just sit back and not do much fighting.

 

[Yngvi]

I've found Lincoln to be an excellent neighbor. He is always willing to do business and he usally dosen't pester me and he's not always sending spies to poison my water.
Hatshepsut is a sweetie.
Gandhi can be safely ignored.

 

[binhthuy71]

The ones with "Dead" beside their names.

 

[sherbz]

my top 6:

Isabella: Izzy is a good techer and a zealout. She is also not averse to sending in the troops via bribes. This is bad if you dont share a religion with her. However, she is well worth the effort or sacrifice by sharing with her as she will become a life long friend who you can quite easily bribe into attacking your neighbours who have a different religion.

Justinian: Again a good techer, and again a good trading partner. Easy to get to like him too as simply sharing a religion with him makes him love you. Also very loyal and doesnt even declare that often when annoyed. its quite possible to backstab him but maintain his religion, sue for peace, and he will still really like you.

Hammurabi: A good techer, a powerful war ally, and also a handy favourite civic (beauracracy) to boot.

Ramases: a good early neighbour, if only for the fact that once you kill him you get lots of nice shiny wonders to boot.

De gaulle: similar to ramases, but more difficult to conquer.

Victoria: good techer and trading partner.

 

[sydhe]

I always like to see Hatshepsut or Saladin. Louis is usually a pretty good neighbor. I don't mind any of the English or American leaders. Frederick's inoffensive.

 

[sherbz]

I always like to see Hatshepsut or Saladin. Louis is usually a pretty good neighbor. I don't mind any of the English or American leaders. Frederick's inoffensive.

I dont really like like the english leaders. Its not so much to do with thier personalities, its more to do with their unique unit, which comes at a time that is ripe for expansion. Red coats IMO are one of the most significantly best units of the game. Id easily put them alongside pretorians in a raw pwer contest. In a way i spose i think old sid was compensating for making the english such a crap civ in civ 3 (they were easily the worst).

 

[hexem3117]

I always like to see Hatshepsut or Saladin. Louis is usually a pretty good neighbor. I don't mind any of the English or American leaders. Frederick's inoffensive.

I would have agreed with you until 4 hours ago on Louis. I was at Friendly with him most of the game, but had to have dropped to Pleased for a few turns. Then what do you know, he DOWs and takes a few cities within 3 turns (I had plenty of defenders...tech parity and ~8 janissaries in each city) We had been best pals all game. He's on my Do Not Call list.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

None of the french leaders are overly trustworthy AFAIK, though de gaulle is enough of a sissy that he's not too intimidating.

My list:

Gandhi (trade-loving walkover), Saladin (easy to manipulate, doesn't plan war at pleased), Izzy (very easy to manipulate), Sitting Bull (very peaceful and sucks warmongers away from you), Lincoln/Roosevelt (walkovers), Frederick (walkover).