Left wing or Right wing

[Richard III]

I hate to say this, but the "French" story is the correct one.

In British parliaments, the government traditionally sits on the Speaker's right, which is to the left from the perspective of the Member's main entrance(s). In short, given that the government was often the radical side, even in the 17th and 18th Centuries (whigs were often in power), it would be a little silly to presume a left or right wing ideology on the basis of seating.

Left wing = in my mind in modern usage, one who sees the state as the primary means of creating social and/or economic progress.

Right wing = generally one who sees the state as a burden on social progress; often, this can still be reactionary, as some right wingers look to other institutions (the army, the church, etc.) as the vehicle for social change.

Anything more detailed is, I think, debatable.

R.III

 

[Captain Carnage]

dont they play ice hockey?

 

[stratego]

To put it in overly simple terms; left-winger favor economic equality (economic caps on max income) and social freedom (they'll favor freedom of speech even if it is offensive while right-wingers favor economic freedom and social equality (they're more likely to censor some speech that might be offensive to the public).

The thing to know is that most people are not distinctly right-wingers or left-wingers. While I may agree with the left in position of abortion, I may also agree with the right about gun control, etc.

So it's not that all the right wingers are gone, it may be that people fall more on the left when it comes to issues about America's current foreign policies

 

[ClashofCivs]

Originally posted by luiz
Right-wing and Left-wing mean nothing in my opinion. That term meant something in the french revolution(where it originated: jacobins seated to the left and girondins to the right, with the moderates in the Center, also called Swamp in that time).
The real oppositions are Socialism vs Capitalism and Libertarian vs Authoritarian. For exemple, it's absurd to consider a neo-liberal and a fascist as both beign simply right-wing. Fascism and liberalism have nothing in common. The political spectrum has at least two dimensions.

BTW, I have strong capitalist and libertarian beliefs.

This is completely correct. I agree that the terms are very obsolete.

It is very pointless to classify new issues in to these archaic terms; instead it is better to discuss the Capitalism vs Socialism and other issues seperately. The main current dividing line has to do with the degree of government involvment in economic matters and other things. Adam Smith would not at all have agreed with any fascist governments so it is rediculous to claim such different ideas are in the same category.

Also modern foreign policy has utterly nothing do with what happened during the French Revolution and cannot be classified on those lines. A political science professor I had was of the opinon that the Republicans identify more with liberty and the Democrats identify more with equality.

 

[Richard III]

Originally posted by stratego
left-winger favor (they'll favor freedom of speech even if it is offensive)

No, they favor freedom of speech even if it is offensive to others. At the first sign that it is offensive to them, on the other hand, it is either (a) corporate lies, or (b) fascist racist propaganda that needs to be censored or (c) worth shouting down with hecklers or disrupted by demonstrators so that the speech can never be heard.

Three facts that led to my divorce from my comrades on the left.

 

[Free Enterprise]

Ok, this is based on American politics therefore may have slightly differing terminology than in other regions/countries. This scale makes sense in practical terms therefore is highly useful.

Left Wing: Generally favor more extensive government involvement especially in economic. They do favor social control also in most or all ways although there is a common misconception here because liberals are not total left wingers.

Extreme Left: Communists(the most), Fascists(yep in U.S. terminology far left think about the similarities to communism.)

Moderate Left: Liberals-Democratic party ideology favors somewhat extensive government involvement in economic matters and certain social matters. However is hands-off in certain social matters which I would consider right wing. Democrats are generally associated with equality rather than liberty as a whole due to the fact liberty and equality cannot be truely merged.

Centrism: Would be a combo of Republicans and Democrats within a certain degree. For example could be 51%right-49%left or 51%left-49% right. Degree would extend to roughly 55%-45% probably.

Moderate Right: Conservatives-Republicans. These favor liberty generally rathern than equality. Generally most supportive of economic freedom(right) and not as supportive of certain social freedoms(left) although they support some social freedom like opposing affirmative action and quotas(government involvement). Favors free trade and legal immigration usually.

Far Right: Libertarian or Anarchist. Although this will probably be controversial it is true. The Libertarians have much more in common with the Republican party than with the Democratic one. These people support almost no or very limited government involvement in any regulatory matter that does not involvement crimes against other people's rights(like murder). Partial and full anarchists are the most extreme on this part of the spectrum(far right anti-government). The opposite of socialism and full government control.


Why don't I consider Fascist right wing? Well, they favor massive economic and social regulation. If I were to count the right as economic freedom and opposed to social freedom with left being opposite as some do that would lead one to think of BOTH facists and communists as being near the center of the spectrum thus screwing it up. Fascists and communists are very close together on the ideological spectrum, I do not consider them opposites as some do. Mussolini's quotes are sufficient proof as are the founders of Fascism's ideological statements.

Abortion cannot be counted as a freedom issue since certain Libertarians do in fact want abortion outlawed because the believe it is murder.


I am fully aware that classical liberal is not the same as 'modern' liberal. FDR and Wilson were instrumental in changing this terminology in the U.S. hence the seeming difference from many other countries in the definition of liberal.

 

[Richard III]

I agree on FDR, although I think his statism is often exageratted when you consider just how modest the New Deal was in modern terms.

But Wilson?

Please explain, I'm curious.

 

[Archer 007]

Originally posted by Free Enterprise

Extreme Left: Communists(the most), Fascists(yep in U.S. terminology far left think about the similarities to communism.)

I agree with you on all of your post except for this point. Fascists are not left-wing. Chaining the workers to the gears of capitalism, like Hitler did, is clearly right-wing philosophy.

 

[Pontiuth Pilate]

Fascists are NOT far left! Is Pat Buchanan "far left"? Fascists are the extremity of the RIGHT wing, just the same as monarchists, reactionaries, etc.

Communism, theoretically, is definitely on the left though. Most real communist countries, being dictatorships, are actually on the right.

And libertarians belong to a whole 'nother wing of politics. Pretending that either political party adopts any libertarian ideas! ! Libertarians belong to a defunct political party - the Jeffersonian Democratic-Republicans, to which the modern Democratic party has only tenuous ties.

 

[tonberry]

Originally posted by Free Enterprise
Far Right: Libertarian or Anarchist.

Every anarchist I know is either left wing or against any systems, right or left.

 

[cgannon64]

Anarchists wouldn't even be on the scale, IMO, since they reject all forms of government.

Although the anarchists I know in real life are die-hard liberals. As in...Bush-hating liberals.

 

[Archer 007]

Originally posted by Pontiuth Pilate
And libertarians belong to a whole 'nother wing of politics. Pretending that either political party adopts any libertarian ideas! ! Libertarians belong to a defunct political party - the Jeffersonian Democratic-Republicans, to which the modern Democratic party has only tenuous ties.

Can I hear an amen to that

 

[Zarn]

Originally posted by Pontiuth Pilate
Fascists are NOT far left! Is Pat Buchanan "far left"? Fascists are the extremity of the RIGHT wing, just the same as monarchists, reactionaries, etc.

Communism, theoretically, is definitely on the left though. Most real communist countries, being dictatorships, are actually on the right.

And libertarians belong to a whole 'nother wing of politics. Pretending that either political party adopts any libertarian ideas! ! Libertarians belong to a defunct political party - the Jeffersonian Democratic-Republicans, to which the modern Democratic party has only tenuous ties.

Fascists and monarchs are more towards the center. Right wing means economically free. I think you messed this scale up with the authoritarian scale.

Coms and socials on extreme left
Dems and similars on left
Facsists and monarchs towards the center
repubs and similars on right
libertarians and anarachiest on far right (absolute free economy)

 

[Pontiuth Pilate]

I'm just going by the overall scale. Everyone says that Al Franken and Hillary Clinton are on the left and Pat Buchanan and Michael Savage are on the right. Well that means that communism is on the FAR left and fascism is on the FAR right, because these are just the policies of these pundits taken to their natural EXTREMES.

As for your "authoritarian" scale.... calling Democrats more authoritarian than Fascists good one.

 

[Zarn]

Originally posted by Pontiuth Pilate
I'm just going by the overall scale. Everyone says that Al Franken and Hillary Clinton are on the left and Pat Buchanan and Michael Savage are on the right. Well that means that communism is on the FAR left and fascism is on the FAR right, because these are just the policies of these pundits taken to their natural EXTREMES.

As for your "authoritarian" scale.... calling Democrats more authoritarian than Fascists good one.

That's not an authoritarian scale. That's an economic scale...

 

[Mark Young]

@ Aphex TWin
Good site
Here are the definitions of what is what...

Conservative:
* Government control of the economy should be minimal. Equal opportunity and legal business practice should be guaranteed though. (Fiscal/Economic)
* Strong moral definitions should be held. Strict criminal law and sentencing are necessary. Freedom and rights cannot be compromised. A strong emphasis is placed on the individual (Moral/Social)

Libertarian:
** Government control of the economy should be minimal. (Fiscal/Economic)
* As long as actions do not harm others, they should be legal. Freedom and rights cannot be compromised (Moral/Social)

Moderate:
- The moderate tends to stand with different groups on an issue to issue basis. Some moderates have strong leanings in regards to certain ideologies in partial areas such as moral conservatism and economic liberalism.

Liberal:
* Strong government involvement and regulation of the economy. Redistribution of wealth and strict regulation of business by the government. (Fiscal/Economic)
* As long as actions do not harm others, they should be legal. Loose Constitutional interpretation. The society is emphasized. (Moral/Social)

Communist:
** Complete government involvement and regulation of the economy. Redistribution of wealth is a key. The government owns, runs, and controls all business. (Fiscal/Economic)
* The ends justify the means. All is done for the good of "society." In practice traditional morals are replaced by loyalty to the government and what the communist party dictates. Traditional Marxist ideas include dissolving the family unit. Actions are done supposedly in the "interest of the people" by the government. (Moral/Social)

From Left to Right the political spectrum runs...
Communist, lberal, moderate, conservative, libertarian.

 

[Stapel]

Originally posted by Superevie
Left Wing is Democrats and right wing is republican. I'm more of a right-winger. I'm a little more conservative and I don't believe in creating more government programs for the unemployed. I believe in people making their own way in life. But hey, that's just me. A lot of other people don't share my views.

I also strongly believe in people making their own way in life.

Which is why I would be very reluctant to vote for a republican candidate (if I were American).

Good for me we have a part in Holland that is liberal on both fiscal ans social issues. Here it is considered rightwing.

Funny thing here, is that the left wing parties call themselves progressive while their election programs say they do NOT want to change our healthcare system and do NOT want to change our state organised labour inability insurance system .

Both systems have proven not to work sufficiently.

 

[WickedSmurf]

Let's try this.

 

[Jorge]

Right wing: economy is the most important. The policy to aply should improve the production and economic growth. With a good economy the wellfare of the people will come by itself. People are responsible for themselves. If someone works hard enough he can get whatever he wants. So poor and unemployed people are in that situation because they want.


Left wing: people is the most important. The policy to aply should ensure the wellfare of the people. Economic growth is only a mean to get the wellfare of the people. All people should have equal oportunities, so good education and health systems should be provided free. To get full employment is very difficult, so the ones that don't have a job is not because they are lazy, it's because there are not jobs enought for everybody. In this situation the ones that work should pay to ensure the wellfare of the ones that can't work.


More or less this can be a summary. I'm left wing.

 

[Stapel]

Originally posted by Jorge
Economic growth is only a mean to get the wellfare of the people.

I'd say economic growth is the only way to get wellfare of the people.