Left wing or Right wing

The Horizontal Axis represents economic beliefs. The further right on the spectrum, the more that you believe in free-market, non govt. interference, etc. The further left, the more you believe in state dominated economy. The Vertical axis represents belief in government control over personal freedoms. A high positive number would be someone who believes in a strong handed government. Hitler and Stalin would be at the top of this graph. A Libertarian would be below the horizontal axis. People would describe their views not as left or right, but by which quadrant their beliefs fell in.
 
Originally posted by Roundman


So you consider Libertarianism the ultimare left wing ideology?

I wouldn't say Communism transcends the left-right axis. Rather, its possible to say that the concept of personal freedom doesn't belong to either side of the spectrum. The further you move from the center on either side, the less personal freedom is emphasized.

In reality, I don't believe in the one axis political spectrum. The two axis political grid better incorporates political thought. I'll try to find an example of it.

No, and I agree with your two axis statement. I find labering liberaraianism or fascist aas either "liberal" or "conservative" to be silly.
 
Fascists are not conservatives, they are radicals, as they want to radically change their country to create an idealized state. True conservatives want little change. In actual politcal/historical terms: the far-right, conservative party in the Weimar period was Hugenburg's German National People's Party (DNVP). The fascist radicals were the Nazis.

In Germany, yes. In Italy, the fascists were ultra conservatives. The corporatism, for instance.
 
I'd actually say the reverse; fascist corporatism is not the same thing as what we'd call corporatism today. The Fascist economy was essentially "socialism through a public-private partnership," and corporatism meant state corporatism in the sense that their was sectoral management of wages, prices, production, etc. through private sector firms.

The nazis did this in some areas, but in others, they were much more likely to just do something themselves (e.g. build infrastructure) rather than arrange for a private firm to do it for them under strictly regulated conditions.

R.III
 
Originally posted by archer_007
Saying that fascism is a left-wing philosophy is just another tool of the right to claim the left is evil. We all know the far left has features we don't want repeat (communism), so why can't the right take some responablity for theirs?
If the right want people to have as much economic freedom as possible, it does not make sense to me why they would also want as little personal freedom as possible. I don't think any socialist nation can have personal freedoms, and the further left you are, the more unlikely is it for the people to have personal freedoms. Why? Because the state controls everything. The government may promise to protect your rights, but what guarantee is that when they still control everything? That is why I think calling fascism a left-wing ideology isn't incorrect. And to say fascism is as far to the right as you can get is totally wrong, IMO. The government would want more money in taxes to finance the army, for instance (taxes = not capitalist). IIRC, Hitler bought the support of a lot of corporations by offering them monopolies in some sectors. And didn't he also tell them what to produce?
 
Sure the right wants personal freedoms, thats why they are pro-abortion, pro-drug decriminalization, pro-gay rights, pro-seperation of church and state, anti-kangaroo court, and pro-allowing patents to sue their HMO
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
 
Originally posted by archer_007
Sure the right wants personal freedoms, thats why they are pro-abortion, pro-drug decriminalization, pro-gay rights, pro-seperation of church and state, anti-kangaroo court, and pro-allowing patents to sue their HMO
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Are those rightists farther to the right than libertarians or conservatives who do want (e.g.) legalization of drugs, though? And I'm sure lots of the so called "liberals" share the republicans' stance on these issues anyway, although I don't know what HMO stands for and what kangaroo court is.
 
These right and left terms don't really work.

I am very left wing economically, but socially I am very libertarian, plus I am a strong believer in green policies such as protecting the environment and animal rights.

And with right wingers, you can have strong belivers in capitalism divded between those who belief in letting people do want they want socillay, and those who belief in controlling what people people do socially.
 
"Saying that fascism is a left-wing philosophy is just another tool of the right to claim the left is evil. We all know the far left has features we don't want repeat (communism), so why can't the right take some responablity for theirs?"

I do! Mobutu, Pinochet, Franco, Somoza...

I've always considered "reactionary" to be a better description of an extremist right wing regime than "fascist."

R.III
 
Originally posted by Richard III
I've always considered "reactionary" to be a better description of an extremist right wing regime than "fascist."
Well, "fascism" is also often strongly "reactionnary", as it's most of the time aimed at restoring a supposed golden age of the past, and to fall back on traditionnal authoritarian values.
 
Agreed. I actually sort of look at Fascism as a genuine and opportunistic combination of extreme left and right. That said, I thought someone should respond to archer's point by noting that the extremes of fascism weren't necessarily the best example of extreme right wing behavior.

And so I did.
 
Originally posted by Pontiuth Pilate
In Germany, yes. In Italy, the fascists were ultra conservatives. The corporatism, for instance.

Corporatism has nothing to do with Corporation like Ford, Sony, etc. Its a style of cooperative government that we don't have in the US, where there are "peak organizations" representing business leaders, labor leaders, and the government officials to get together and decide an economic policy. It goes against liberal market capitalist beliefs.
 
Originally posted by ComradeDavo
These right and left terms don't really work.

I am very left wing economically, but socially I am very libertarian, plus I am a strong believer in green policies such as protecting the environment and animal rights.

And with right wingers, you can have strong belivers in capitalism divded between those who belief in letting people do want they want socillay, and those who belief in controlling what people people do socially.

Like I said, the left-right, one-dimensional spectrum is inadequate and wrong.
 
Oh, and just for the record :

Fascism is right-wing.
Anarchism is left-wing.

Now you can say that "it's contradictory", etc. Yes, because a single-axis is doomed to have many contradictions. Nevertheless, fascism as its roots in extreme right, anarchism in extreme left.
 
Originally posted by Akka
Oh, and just for the record :

Fascism is right-wing.
Anarchism is left-wing.

Now you can say that "it's contradictory", etc. Yes, because a single-axis is doomed to have many contradictions. Nevertheless, fascism as its roots in extreme right, anarchism in extreme left.
Care to back up those claims a little?
 
Originally posted by Hayek

Care to back up those claims a little?
Get a history book, and sees from which part of the political spectrum fascism and anarchism came.
 
Originally posted by Akka
Oh, and just for the record :

Fascism is right-wing.
Anarchism is left-wing.

Now you can say that "it's contradictory", etc. Yes, because a single-axis is doomed to have many contradictions. Nevertheless, fascism as its roots in extreme right, anarchism in extreme left.

If you claim Fascism is right-wing, then perhaps you can tell us what is the definition of right-wing.

Is it economic freedom?If so, the Fascist are not even close to the right.

Is it anti-marxism? If so, the anarchists are also right-wing.

Is it authoritarianism? If so, Lenin was right-wing.
 
Originally posted by Hayek

Care to back up those claims a little?

Because it would be natural for anarchy to be the opposite of fascism... but again, we speak of a linear, and flawed model
 
Originally posted by luiz


If you claim Fascism is right-wing, then perhaps you can tell us what is the definition of right-wing.

Is it economic freedom?If so, the Fascist are not even close to the right.

Is it anti-marxism? If so, the anarchists are also right-wing.

Is it authoritarianism? If so, Lenin was right-wing.
I can repeat the last sentence of the very message you quoted, which pretty much answer your questions :

" Now you can say that "it's contradictory", etc. Yes, because a single-axis is doomed to have many contradictions. Nevertheless, fascism as its roots in extreme right, anarchism in extreme left."
 
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