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Legendary Journeys

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Modpacks' started by Barghaest, Jan 6, 2014.

  1. Barghaest

    Barghaest Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2011
    Messages:
    758
    IMPORTANT: Due to issues with both Game Speeds and Handicaps having certain aspects that could not be altered via mods, I was forced to create custom versions of both while leaving the defaults untouched (except for changing the text as warnings). This means to launch the mod properly, you will need to select placeholders in the initial Game Setup then proceed to Advanced Setup and use the drop down menus to select appropriate speeds and handicaps for the mod.
    If any of the drop down menus in Advanced Setup begin as blank (usually caused if config.ini stored previous settings that were added by mods), there can be an issue of not being able to select an item for it, so you will have to back out to the initial Setup (just one screen) and make sure nothing there is empty (this is the issue which prevented me from simply bypassing the initial screen and going straight to Advanced).


    Now it is time for me to give credit where credit is due.
    First, I'd like to thank Thalassacus and his fellow modders at Communitas
    -For: Making CIVUP/VEM which first introduced me to modding (wonderful work) that both
    • inspired ideas for my mod (Deserts and Snow requiring 2 Move for one) and
    • gave me something to study to further my understanding of modding (yes, I brutally dissected your wonderful mod to examine its innards :shifty:)

    Secondly, I'd like to thank William Howard
    -For: His wonderful Pick N Mix Mods to which I was recently introduced (and also dissected to improve my understanding of SQL & LUA :mischief:) and especially his "DLL - Various Mod Components", which made some of the aspects of my mod so much easier than the shoddy workarounds I did on my own.

    Thirdly, I'd like to thank the wonderful community here at CFC
    -For: Providing great mods (yes, I dissected a few - honestly, it was for research and not some deep seated desire to rip things apart! :satan:), inspiration and even helpful suggestions in response to my various queries.


    With that out of the way, on towards Legendary Journeys.
    I've been working on this mod pretty much since Civ V was released because I never liked the pace of the base game, everything seem rushed with units going obsolete before you could really enjoy them. The implementation of Epic and Marathon speeds also left a lot to be desired for me as it slowed everything (including worker rates and construction times) leading to long periods of nothing much for me to do but click End Turn if I wasn't involved in a war.

    Balancing the game (and especially the AI) to handle a much slower pace was a difficult task met with many hurdles and frustration often left the unfinished work on the wayside for long periods. When I almost had it working to my satisfaction, a new Expansion was released that completely altered the mechanics and introduced new issues to balancing and after a long period working to retool my mod for Gods & Kings, I suffered a hard drive corruption and lost all my data (yep, forgot to back up :wallbash:) and once again set my project aside.

    Since I got Brave New World, I found it much easier to balance to my satisfaction. Although I still hesitated to release it because certain workarounds I made for mechanics (like moving through terrains like Ice or Mountains) seemed crude. Then I discovered William Howard's DLL which fixed many of the issues I was having. While I was looking at all the features of his DLL, I decided to expand the ideas for my mod and incorporate quite a few. While still not quite polished, I believe my mod is ready for an Alpha release, because if left to just me playing it looking for errors (mainly missed text entries or other things I have overlooked) or checking balance on various map sizes, handicaps and game speeds it'll probably take a few more years since I can spend a month or more on one game.

    REQUIREMENTS:
    Legendary Journeys requires both Gods & Kings as well as Brave New World.

    I have no intentions of making backdated versions because the changes in previous versions (losing Trade Routes, getting gold from water tiles, less happiness without religion and extra luxuries, etc.) severely impact game play at a slower pace. It wasn't until now I was able to balance it to my liking and re-tweaking the Months per Turn increment (which isn't quite set, yet :undecide: ) is a just one of the chores I do not wish to revisit for various versions. Anyone wants to they can have it on their own, dissecting my mod to see how I altered the pace! :mwaha:

    It also currently requires the Ancient Wonders DLC because I referenced some art from the scenario (Sumerian Phalanx) although if I find a better unit model, I might relent on that requirement. It should not require any other DLC (apart from Mongolia which everyone should have for free now anyway).

    You will need William Howard's DLL - Various Mod Components.
    I kept this file separate for two reasons:
    • So it will retain its unique ID which is required by several of WHoward's other mods.
    • It makes it easier to update when not unceremoniously stuffed into a huge mod with other components.

    You will also need the Pick N Mix Compendium I compiled from several of his various mods which I chose to implement into mine.
    I kept this file separate for the following reasons:
    • It contains no original work by me (just combined several files to keep from having to click 20+ little check boxes before launching)
    • Since the files are basically unaltered from their original mods by William Howard (just a few things for convenience like moving all text modifications to one area and combining mods that did one or two changes to CustomModOptions into one file) it could be used without my mod as a prerequisite for another mod or just for convenience.
    • I had to run several tests to make sure I didn't completely bork the system while combining the mods and since I already had it as a separate package (and stupidly forgot to put a root directory separate from the bazillion child directories I created for his mod :hide:) the lazy part of me decided it would be easier to just keep them separate (and not have to redo a bazillion lines of UpdateDatabase after moving all the child folders into a parent to keep it separate from my mod's child folders :eek2:).

    The Pick N Mix Compendium contains the following (and blocks anything it contains which added LUA or new items - such as improvements or units - to avoid multiple mods attempting to add the same thing):
    Spoiler :

    Global - 2 Units Per Fort (v1)
    Global - 3 Units Per City (v1)
    Global - Allies Block Blockades (v2)
    Global - City Bombard Range (v1)
    Global - City Forest Bonus (v2)
    Global - City State Airbases (v3)
    Global - City State Gifts (BNW) (v3)
    Global - City Working Distance (v4) *Activating Buildings only*
    Global - Counter Espionage (v3)
    Global - Counter Religion (v2)
    Global - CS Unit Upgrades (v2)
    Global - GA Happiness (v1)
    Global - Local Generals (v2)
    Global - Naval Nearest Water (v2)
    Global - No Conquered Spaceships (v2)
    Global - No Followup From Cities (v3)
    Global - Passable Forts (v3)
    Global - Pro-Rata Buildings Purchase (v2)
    Global - Religious Settlers (v1)
    Global - Remove Ghost Routes (v2)
    Global - Spice Islands (v1)
    Global - Units Awake In Danger (v2)
    Global - Venice Keeps Resources (v1)
    Improvement - Airbases (v10)
    Improvement - Farm Replacement (v1)
    Improvement - Pontoon Bridge (v2)
    Improvement - Tunnel (v3)
    Maps - Improved CS Luxuries (v5)
    Promotions - AntiAir Only Defensive (v4)
    Promotions - AntiAir Specialisations (v1)
    Pronotions - Jet Long Range Recon (v3)
    Promotions - Terrain Crossing (v3)
    Religion - Bonus Beliefs (v1)
    Religion - Natural Wonder Epiphany (v2)
    Tech - Satellites Revel Cities (v9)
    UI - Antiquity Site Tooltips (v5)
    UI - City Expansion (v13)
    UI - Religion Spread (v12)
    UI - Unit List Enhancements (v9)
    Unique Unit - Longboat (v6)
    Units - Galleon (GK) (v5)
    Units - Herdsmen (v10)
    Units - Paratroop Enhancements (v3)
    Units - Population (v7)
    Units - Prospectors (v7)
    Units - Rangers (v10)
    Units - Steampunk Airships (v10)
    Units - Subs Immune Under Ice (v2)
    Units - Super Carrier (v9)


    And finally we reach Legendary Journeys!
    (Well, almost... there's the file but I'll address what it contains in detail next post).

    This file will block the following of William Howard's Mods because they interfere with changes I made:
    Spoiler :

    Global - Grateful Settlers
    Units - Naval Changes (GK) - Early Eras
    Units - Naval Changes (GK) - Late Eras


    I'd highly recommend bc1's Enhanced User Interface
    as I use it myself (so it should have few compatibility issues - although some of William Howard's UI alterations replace functionality of bc1's, namely CityView and UnitPanel which I will look into creating a combined version for my mod... eventually :dubious: ).

    Update: Pick N Mix Compendium (v3) & Legendary Journeys (v3) uploaded (17 Jan 14)
    Version History can be viewed in Readme.txt.
     
  2. Barghaest

    Barghaest Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2011
    Messages:
    758
    What Legendary Journeys entails:
    It is a very slow research game while maintain Standard speed construction and build times.

    It currently has three game speeds:
    • Quick - 180 Turns Per Era
    • Standard - 240 Turns Per Era
    • Epic - 300 Turns Per Era

    Despite your initial impressions this does not lead to a lot of clicking Next Turn (at least not for me, I always have something to do).

    Your mileage may vary depending on how you manage your empire, map size and conditions, civilization choice, policies, goody huts, etc. It is balanced around my play style (I'll address this later) and Large Maps.

    Turns per Era will also vary slightly based on Era (it's an approximation and the Ancient era will likely take a significant bit longer as you are just getting established - should stabilize by Medieval/Renaissance).

    There are five Handicaps:
    • Chieftan - No AI bonuses. Plays like regular Settler except the AI WILL declare war. Bonus vs Barbarians is moderate.
    • Warlord - Slight AI Bonuses. Equivalent to Prince in regular game for dominating AI. Bonus vs Barbarians is minor.
    • Prince - Minor AI Bonuses. Balanced difficulty, you might out tech AI early but they will catch up and even outpace you. No Barbarian bonus.
    • King - Moderate AI Bonuses. Slightly challenging to remain dominant. Minor penalty vs Barbarians.
    • Emperor - AI Bonuses. Challenging to remain dominant. AI will often remain ahead. Moderate penalty vs Barbarians.

    The AI gets NO free techs.

    Regardless of difficulty level player bonuses (apart from vs Barbarians) are fixed. Same Happiness level, same reduction in unit/building maintenance rates, same research/construction speeds - the only thing that varies is AI bonuses, diplomacy difficulty, barbarian strength and goody huts available (lower gold in higher settings and - if they are functioning properly - worse "bad" goodies).

    Several Adjustments were necessary to balance the pace of the game:
    • Most Free Tech had to be eliminated (Free Tech is utterly crippling in a slow paced research game especially at the early parts where you'll be 50-150 turns behind)
    • Reworked Goodies - Free Tech, Unit Upgrades, Settlers or Population could be unbalancing early in the game.
    • Limited World Wonders to 2 per City (National Wonders unaffected) - So plan accordingly, yes I know this severely impacts Venice and I'm looking at fixing that, but it was necessary to cut down on runaways (AI and player).
    • Gated several World Wonders to require entire Policy Trees (so there's a further reason to fully complete a Policy tree).
    • Most Great People have had their "missions" reduced in effect to make settling them more appealing (Scientists will likely only give you 1/3 to 2/3 reduction in current research so creating Academies is more useful in the long term).
    • Reduced Population loss on sacking a city from 50% to 40% (as a balance for the slower growth rate to slightly reduce the impact of city flipping)
    • Reduced Experience Needed Per Level from 10 to 5 - This helps AI tremendously in combat allowing them to spam their favored "Insta Heal" more often, despite this human players can still easily dominate the game since the slower pace puts even more emphasis on combat over other factor.
    • Doubled influence needed for culture levels - with the slow pace of game it was necessary to avoid Culture Victory being the easiest to achieve (usually by the time you got a few Hotels).
    • Reduced City State Influence decay by 20%.
    • Added more versions of World's Fair and International Games for later eras unlocked by tech.
    • Moved Process Wealth to Agriculture so you didn't have to churn out units and sell them for several hundred turns and increased Flavor so the AI will rely more on it to stabilize their economy (AI still runs deficits frequently before Renaissance).
    • Maintenance had to be slightly tweaked and most civilian units (Workers, Herdsmen without Rustled Resources, Great People, Missionaries - but not Inquisitors, etc.) are now maintenance free. This helps the AI, which tends to spam more workers, avoid completely crippling their economy (I tended to treat workers as disposable, disbanding them when there was nothing to do, but the AI seldom disbands them).
    • Improved the effectiveness of Espionage (so spies didn't take 5x or more the time to steal a tech as it did to research it)
    • Added an extra Spy for entering Renaissance (so the tech leader can keep one on defense and still do something else) and an additional one for entering Modern (giving a grand total of 8 or 9 if you're England).
    • Defensive Embarkation can be earned with Sailing (allowing early embarking units and a promotion that remains useful - except maybe for Songhai)
    • Enhanced Barbarians - they get a +200% bonus when attacking cities and they can cross ice, mountains and embark from the start of the game. Their archers and Spearmen are no longer weaker than regular ones. And beware late game Barbarian units that require no resources... like the no Uranium Barbarian GDR replacement Land Leviathan.
    • Increased Experience from Barbarians to 50 - Equal to a fresh unit churned out of a city with Brandenburg Gate and all buildings/policies available to every civilization that grant experience (also allows units to get 4 promotions before Barbarians give no experience).
    • Reduced dominance of Archer units compared to Siege and greatly increased Siege defensive strength.
    • Reduced City Range Attack - still hits hard in defense when attacked by melee, but reduced impact of bombard since City Strength grows faster than unit upgrades become available. This makes units the primary means to thin out attackers.
    • Increased the cost of Pantheons slightly and Prophets greatly. This means religion is slower to gain so you'll be stuck with just a pantheon for longer.
    • Reworked most Turns_Between and Turns_Until to be multiples of 12, since the base time unit is months and in later eras turns can be one month long I planned things to be 1 to 5 years based on that (this includes how long you are war locked and how many turns you have to prepare if an ally asks you to go to war (even though UI might say 'Give us 10 turns to prepare' it is 12)
    • Reduced Science Yield of Natural Wonders by 1-2 (for early game balance)
    • Made Horses visible from the start of the game - even before you poop your first city.
    • Made Aluminum visible at Scientific Theory (instead of Electricity).

    Specific Adjustments by Category (some entries may appear in multiple categories)

    GENERAL:
    Spoiler :
    • Reworked Embarked Visibility - Earnable Promotions that increase sight range also give Embarked Visibility as does Amphibious.
    • Increased Embarked Movement increases via Technology.
    • Reactivated Bad Goodies - Although I haven't seen one pop yet with my Warriors so not sure if they're working correctly.
    • Activated the +1 Move from first to Circumnavigate (certain Civilizations more likely to get it - like Polynesia)
    • Increased Sight Range of Spies by 1 (they now see 2 tiles just like a regular unit).
    • Doubled the number of dig sites to help fill out museums and keep Tourism effective with above changes.
    • Made Scrub Fallout require Mobile Tactics - so be careful with those nukes when you first get them, may be stuck with radiation for a while
    • Moved Indirect Fire for cities to Engineering (William Howard's City Bombard Range)


    POLICIES:
    Spoiler :
    • Reworked Experience granted by Policies to compensate for lower requirements.
    • Changed Collective Rule to give a 20% bonus to Settler Production in any city instead of just 50% in capital.
    • Reduced bonus vs Barbarians from Honor opener to 20%
    • Removed the 50% bonus to earned experience from Military Tradition and replaced it with Morale Promotion for all Land Units (like Discipline)
    • Piety is much more important since you are likely to lose race for religion if you don't go that policy due to the changes in Faith.
    • Angkor Wat now requires the Tradition Finisher
    • Leaning Tower of Pisa now requires Liberty Finisher
    • Alhambra now requires Honor Finisher
    • Sistine Chapel now requires Piety Finisher
    • Neuschwanstein now requires Patronage Finisher
    • Broadway now requires Aesthetics Finisher
    • CN Tower now requires Commerce Finisher
    • Hubble Space Telescope now requires Exploration Finisher
    • Great Firewall now requires Rationalism Finisher


    TERRAIN: (includes Features and Improvements)
    Spoiler :
    • Added hammers from chopping jungle (same as forest but takes twice as long to chop down)
    • Changed Marsh to Rough Terrain (From VEM)
    • Removed the ability to build Farms on Desert with no Fresh Water (from VEM)
    • Gave Atolls, Desert and Snow a Movement Cost of 2 (from VEM - not sure if they did Atolls, that might have been mine)
    • Gave Ice a Movement cost of 10 - since Barbarians and Denmark (and with William Howard's DLL certain units can earn it) could traverse it, made it slow going at 1 tile per turn.
    • Gave Mountains a Movement Cost of 3 (untested with DLL, but I will like give Carthage Double Move in Mountains to compensate, if necessary)
    • Made El Dorado passable
    • Made Fountain of Youth give Fresh Water to surrounding tiles
    • Gave City Ruins +1 Gold and another +1 Gold Per Era since city's original founding. They also get +2 Culture at Archaeology making those without Dig Sites appealing to keep (AI even settles near them instead of on now)
    • Allowed Airbases to built on Snow and gave them a maintenance cost of 2 (late game you SHOULD be able to still afford a lot of them... trust me) (WHoward's Improvement - Airbase )
    • Removed Holy Sites ability to connect Strategic Resources (late game you'll have decide if getting that Aluminum is worth tearing down a sacred building...)
    • Gave Citadels the ability to add base improvement values to Strategic Resources (so it counts as a Mine on Iron, but gains no benefit from Technology as a Mine does)


    BUILDINGS: (Includes Wonders)
    Spoiler :
    • Replaced Free Tech for Great Library with free Great Writer
    • Replaced Free Tech for Oxford University with choice of Free Great Person
    • Gated several Wonders to required Policy Finishers (see Policy section)
    • Removed Morale from Heroic Epic and replaced with military production bonuses
    • Removed Drill from Alhambra and replaced with military production bonuses (with Alhambra, Heroic Epic, Temple of Artemis, Forge and Stable in same city will get +65% to production when building any land unit except siege or armor would need Kremlin to get that with Armor and nothing gives that for siege)
    • Reduced University Science bonus from Jungle to 1 but gave +1 science to other features (Atolls, Oil, Sea Resources, Oases, Marsh, Ice) and +2 science to Uranium and most Natural Wonders (even some that didn't previously have yields, like the Fountain of Youth)
    • Libraries/Universities/Public Schools grant experience to newly produced Settlers/Workers so they may be trained with promotions (haven't currently implemented a system for them to earn more experience after creation, I just replace them as better buildings are completed).
    • Harbors/Seaports/Public Schools grant experience to newly produced Workboats.
    • Allowed Caravansary (so now there's a point to building them in every possible city - even since tile islands like the AI likes to do) and Harbor to each extend city work radius by 1 ring (WHoward's City Working Distance)
    • Reduced Religious Conversion reduction from shrines and temples and added some to Faith purchased buildings (Monastery, Cathedral) (WHoward's Counter Religion)


    PROMOTIONS:
    Spoiler :
    • Altitude Training earnable as well as granted free by Natural Wonder - it's the Woodsman equivalent for Hills.
    • Added in earnable promotions similar to Altitude Training for Desert movement and Tundra/Snow (Inspired by VEM)
    • Gave Amphibious double movement on Atolls/Flood Plains/Marsh.
    • Added a Civilian Sentry promotion - earnable by some non-combat units - to serve as an additional prerequisite for Terrain-based promotions (so you can have workers that get double movement in Desert for your desert cities).
    • Created a line of Mounted Promotions used by both ranged and melee mounted units. Instead of being terrain based they are target based. Overrun gives attack bonuses vs archers, siege and recon units while Engage gives attack and defense bonuses vs melee, mounted and armor units. (This means Mounted Archers cannot earn Range making them more mobile but eventually inferior to foot archers)
    • Replaced March with Repair for Mounted and Siege units.
    • Allowed Melee/Gunpowder to earn Ambush 2
    • Defensive Embarkation can be earned with Sailing (allowing early embarking units and a promotion that remains useful - except maybe for Songhai)
    • Altered Medic line to affect same tile since there is limited unit stacking
    • Made terrain-based promotions earnable by foot Archers after getting March
    • Added Rival Territory to Scouting 3
    • Added the ability to enter Ice to Survival 3
    • Altered No Defensive Bonuses to give -25% Defense in Rough Terrain (countering the bonus for Hills/Forest and deepening the penalty for Marsh) allowing Mounted/Siege units to both fortify and gain bonuses from Forts/Citadels
    • Paradrop earnable by civilians and scouts with Mobile Tactics


    UNITS:
    Spoiler :
    • Gave the ability to buy Settlers and Workers with Faith without requiring to be unlocked (just need a religion) to avoid having WAY too many Holy Sites/Great Prophets by the time you reach industrial.
    • Made Great People (apart from General and Admiral), Settlers and Workboats able to be captured and retain their class (Settlers are a huge investment early game so having one flipped to a worker was crippling, Great People were mainly for AI benefit since they tended to leave some unescorted now they don't get totally destroyed - although this does open up a player exploit it's up to you not to abuse the AI too much...)
    • Added the ability for workboats to remove Ice at Ecology
    • Gave workers the ability to do workboat builds (at the cost of their lives just like a workboat)
    • Reduced range of all archers to 1 and boosted their CS to equal their RCS.
    • Made Longbowman +1 range a base statistic instead of a free Range promotion (so they can still earn that Range promotion to have 3 range)
    • Increased CS of Siege to be 1.5x their RCS (to make them harder to kill with cities and range and make mounted - and to a lesser extent, melee - do their assigned jobs to clean them out)
    • Increased CS of Siege Tower and Battering Ram by 25% and made them upgrade to Melee units instead of returning to siege (the crew upgrades not the hunk of wood)
    • Gave all mounted units (even Chariot Archers) Can Move After Attacking
    • Streamlined upgrade paths so units remain in the designated combat line... so Spearmen no longer upgrade to Lancers, instead they become Riflemen. Lancers no longer become AT Guns, they become tanks.
    • Nothing upgrades into Helicopter Gunships (any more than anything upgrades into Submarines).
    • Added in a Recon line that upgrades along the top of tech tree. Forward Scouts at Optics, Skirmishers at Compass, Explorers at Navigation, Forward Observers at Electricity and finally Marine Recon at Penicillin. They remain COMBATCLASS_RECON so they cannot get Drill/Shock and are weaker than melee units of same time (Marine Recon has CS 50 vs Marine's 65 or Infantry's 70) but are very strong skirmishers since they Ignore Terrain Cost and with Survival III have great defense.
    • Made Galleass available at Optics (from WHoward's Naval Changes) and reduced their range to 1.
    • Made Caravels available at Compass but cannot enter ocean before Astronomy (from WHoward's Naval changes) and upgrade into Privateers
    • Made Frigates available at Astronomy and they upgrade into Ironclads (from WHoward's Naval Changes)
    • Gave Privateers Extra Sight and Withdraw Before Melee
    • Added a CS/Barbarian only Galleon at Archaeology. Stronger than Privateer and starts with Boarding Party.
    • Gave Rival Territory and Withdraw Before Melee to Submarines (actually did this years ago, great minds think alike :D )
    • Added a Combat Engineer at Mobile Tactics. Is a Recon style unit (65 CS) that can duplicate all worker builds and even do some other builds without dying (like Fishing Boats, Pontoon Bridges, Tunnels), can pillage and begins with Ignore Terrain Cost, Can Cross Ice and Paradrop.
    • Gave Indirect Fire as an Attribute to Catapults and Trebuchets (but not Ballista, Hwacha or Cannons).
    • Added in two hovering units - a Balloon at Steam Power that requires Coal and an Airship (Blimp) at Electronics. Both are slow moving high sight radius with relatively weak range attack at range 1 and Withdraw Before Melee (using the Smokey Skies models extracted by WHoward, but they are placeholders, I'd actually like a Balloon and a Blimp)
    • Added Coal requirement to TBM (WHoward's Improvement - Tunnel)
    • Removed Coal from Ironclad, it now requires 2 Iron
    • Made Herdsmen with a Resource not swap to workers so they (and the resource) can be rescued (WHoward's Unit - Herdsmen)
    • Gave Prospectors the ability to chop forest/jungle and repair tiles and gave them March (WHoward's Unit - Prospect)


    CIVILIZATION SPECIFIC:
    Spoiler :
    • Gave England's Naval Bonuses to Workboats and Great Admirals and America's Sentry promotion to civilian units and Great Generals
    • Gave all of Arabia's units the Desert movement promotion (made it built in for Camel Archers so they'll have it if gifted)
    • Gave all of Denmark's units the Arctic movement promotion (built in for Ski Infantry) and the ability to enter ice.
    • Gave Denmark's early ships (Trireme and Galleass) the ability to cross oceans (from WHoward's Terrain Crossing Promotions) and enter ice (retained from pre-DLL version)
    • Gave all Incan units (built in for UUs) Altitude Training (since it didn't stack double move wise with their Trait and I made it the earnable Hill promotion, I gave it to them free so they wouldn't waste a promo buying it)
    • Polynesia has double move in Atolls built in to All Water Embarkation
    • Gave Songhai +1 Embarked Movement.
    • Added Pikemen replacement for Spain that upgrades to Tercio (otherwise identical to regular Pikemen).
     
  3. Barghaest

    Barghaest Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2011
    Messages:
    758
    DISCLAIMER: This is still an early Alpha. I haven't finished my first test game with current build but I've played several with MOST of the above changes - I did a modder no-no and included several last minute untested additions when packaging release but as my intent was to release an alpha, I believe this is acceptable (I will refrain from this in beta or later releases and only release changes I have tested).

    If you choose to play it, understand there might be bugs (one of the reasons I decided to release it was help finding missed text entries and other broken sections from those who are willing, but you are under no obligation to be an alpha tester, just don't complain about it being broken if you don't help me find what's broken!)

    A bit of a warning... load times (and eventually turn times) can get extremely long late game on Huge maps (why I dropped to Large for balance, but they can still get a bit long once AI gets flight unless you turn on Quick Move/Quick Combat).

    This isn't merely a "game speed" mod intended to be launched with other major mods. When I was retooling the game speed, I noticed several areas that required rebalancing to keep the game playable at such a slow research pace and due to this I decided to make it a "stand-alone" mod, which means it will not be fully compatible with other major overhaul mods (such as CIVUP/BEM) but can be used with ones that do minor changes (like replacing a Civ's UU with a UB). I might incorporate features from specific overhaul mods, if I believe they'll improve my game.

    Also does not seem to function with IGE. Not sure if this is a compatibility issue with changes in my mod or the Enhanced DLL (will test in next few days).

    KNOWN ISSUES:
    Spoiler :
    • Cover still not working for units with a Ranged Combat Strength - even those with higher Combat Strength (Siege) still using Ranged Combat Strength in defense vs ranged attacks.
    • Movement alterations to Mountains not functions - tried several workarounds including Halfspeed flag. I'd hoped to have all non-Carthaginian units move through mountains slower than hills, but this will take quite a bit of work to figure out.
    • Natural Wonder "mountains" remain impassable with Alpine Corp.


    Plans for the future:
    • Finding better models/icons than using orphans. I've been looking at some of Danrell's but have made no decisions yet.
    • Been debating adding in more units - a Tank Destroyer line for AT upgrades, for one, a late game tank that carries missiles akin to Steve Jackson's O.G.R.E. (was thinking of calling it T.R.O.L.L. Thermonuclear Rocket Ordanance Launching Leviathan) and more late game units... maybe a Future Era.
    • I'd like to see if I could have civilian units earn experience somehow (either by work or just being garrisoned in a city with a University like VEM did with Barracks)
    • Adding in VEMs system for granting terrain-based promotions to barbarians/CS based on surrounding terrain.
    • Filling in lonely Techs (Steam Power currently only has Ironclad... was going to put Balloon there but Scientific Theory made more sense)
    • Seeing about improving AI behavior (lofty goal and probably beyond my reach)
    • Checking possibility of allowing Venice to request Puppets to build wonders (by Purchasing a building that allows the Puppet to attempt to construct a wonder) akin to a CS giving quests to build one - probably remove Venice's OCC restriction as a workaround.
    • Add in more support for other mods (CSD comes to mind, especially since William Howard added support on his DLL)
    • I have more ideas... will update as I remember them... :hmm:
     
  4. Barghaest

    Barghaest Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2011
    Messages:
    758
    This mod is primarily for my style of play, so I won't be making adjustments contradictory to that.

    A bit about how I play (subject to alteration/clarification as I feel necessary):

    I'm a very patient person (so the long load times don't annoy me greatly) and I like to plod along slowly, planning well in advance yet my plans are subject to change.

    I'm a Passive-Aggressive warmonger. I have no qualms about exterminating every AI in the game, but for the most part I'll keep to myself and "play nice" all the time planning out how I'm going to map my empire across the entire globe and which AI cities need to be razed. Once an AI "gets in my way" (Large Diplo Hit), I will let slip the dogs of war...

    I believe I have some form of OCD because I feel the urge to micromanage greatly and be in constant control of the every aspect of my empire:
    • I almost never Puppet cities - I will either Raze or Annex (so I can fully control them)
    • I always lock my population, never allow the governor to move them. They seldom change after being set, I like my cities to have a mix of production, food and gold but will alter if situation demands only to return to my original settings after the crisis is averted or my goal is achieved.
    • I'm rabid about theming Great People - it greatly annoys me when I capture an enemy city and it has Wonders that grant different GP points (like Stonehenge and Colossus) and I usually respond by razing the city out of spite. I feel each city should be dedicated to one (and ONLY one) GP and theme my wonders and specialists accordingly.
    • I don't feel "Science is king", I'm going to beat the AI because I can manage my empire better and actually use something called "tactics" in battle so I feel no need to race through techs to gain even more advantage over them (actually have more fun if I'm NOT tech leader because tech advantage gives AI a bit of an equalizer)
    • I seldom "bulb" my Great People, preferring to settle them on non-Fresh Water Grassland/Tundra or Desert/Snow.
    • I never automate workers. I like to keep most of surroundings of my city resplendent in their natural beauty until such time as it is needed. I will only add improvements as necessary (this doesn't mean just one per pop and one queue for next growth, sometimes I might have multiple extras if varied... like a few mines and a few farms to swap between production and growth if I need).
    • I dislike chopping forests/jungle unless it's really necessary (resource underneath) and prefer to preserve them for later in the game where I can put lumbermills and trading posts.
    • I seldom set distant waypoints or automate explorers - I have no problems moving a unit every turn because where he is going might change if a barbarian camp pops up or some AI starts mobilizing an army.
    • I like to field a large army - half defensive, half offensive
    • Each city maintains a "National Guard" based on the population size and whether it is coastal, inland or island - yes, you could say I actually have charts on how to do that and I start producing the next unit either when the city reaches a threshold or early enough so it will complete by then.
    • My "Standing Army" is comprised of 4 unit "divisions" and also based on population of cities in the empire (every city with a pop of 4 grants one free slot for an army unit as does pop 8.... 12 and 16 are navy slots... etc.)
    • I dislike losing units... especially experienced ones - I get quite attached to them and they all have unit designations (like "NG 2D-1 Sentry" for National Guard, 2nd Division - meaning my 2nd City - 1st Sentry or perhaps 1st Recon for my "standing army" - and this is usually the first scout I ever built too!), so I will be slow, methodical machine during war and might spend 20+ sieging a city while rotating out units, pulling back when the AI pushes, pillaging tiles, etc. until I finally capture it (all the while I am unlikely to accept a peace treaty unless failure to do so would cost "lives" of my cherished men).
    • I don't follow a specific formula for victory every time... I play theme games where I decide Policies, attitude towards neighbors, tech order, Ideology, victory conditions, etc. all based on the Civilization I am playing altered by how my starting location looks and how the game is flowing but sticking WITHIN my pre-defined theme (like when I played Ottomans, I decided to do a "naval jihad" theme so I opened Piety, after finishing it, I went Honor and then Exploration... I ended up choosing Order over Autocracy due to what I needed at the time but either fit the theme for me - Freedom would have been outside it - I also concentrated on settling coasts/islands and in late game when I had 30 cities only 2 were landlocked)
    • While winning is nice, it's the actual creation of a world spanning empire from just a settler that I enjoy most (which is why I created this game pace so I could enjoy the JOURNEY and not just race to the destination...)

    This might explain why few of my turns involve simply clicking "Next Turn" since I've always got something to do... if not moving a unit, then directing a worker to improve a newly tile, setting production on several cities, assigning population, keeping a paranoid eye on my rabid AI neighbors or gazing lustfully at where my empire will expand next. This game pace prevents me from being overwhelmed by too much micromanagement every turn while allowing me just enough so that every turn offers me something to do.
     
  5. Espartafilardo

    Espartafilardo Chieftain

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    Location:
    Milwaukee
    The actual mod (in its current state) changes more than I myself would like, but I am eager to try it, and particularly interested in the balancing necessary to make this sort of mod work.

    I definitely think CIV 6 should include the option for slower research without slower build speeds, and balance accordingly.

    I tend to play CIV 5 at epic speed, having played at marathon alot and gotten sick of the long build times.

    I enjoy reading about how people play. In some ways you're like me, in other ways my polar opposite. We have in common a preference for some decisions that are purely esthetic, or idiosyncratic, or obsessive, that power-gamers would find pointless.

    For CIV 4, I created a set of simple mods that halted technological progress -- one mod per era, plus a few intermediate ones. For example, my "Classical PLUS" mod included all of that era's techs, plus a few more to allow a full range of world religions. In each case, I made a few changes to balance the experience of being stuck in, say, the ancient era; however, these changes were minimal. They made the modded games playable, not balanced, I'd say ... I didn't ever fully grasp the extent of the havoc the mods could wreak, since I was the only playtester, and not very systematic at that. (These mods were never shared with the community.) I made careful notes about which civs would be wholly or partly handicapped by my tech-freezing mods, although I made very few tweaks in response: my main strategy was to KNOW which civs were harmed or helped, not fix every civ for every era's mod(s).

    When CIV 5 came out, I considered repeating the whole task, but it finally occurred to me that I could just slow down research, or slow it down after a given era. Then, of course, I started to realize all the issues that would arise, that account for many (not all) of Barghaest's changes ...

    Dunno if I'll make the mod(s), but Barghaest's work and comments have certainly raised my interest and enthusiasm for such projects.
     
  6. Barghaest

    Barghaest Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2011
    Messages:
    758
    Yeah, I figured that might be the case for some... I went a little overboard including some "optional" stuff when I discovered William Howard's mods (Herdsmen and Prospectors are prime examples; however they can be ignored entirely since the AI does not really make use of them), but as I said I originally did this for my own benefit.

    As for the balance changes, most of them are documented in the various .xml or .sql files (tried to be vigorous with my comments as to why I did things not just what I did).

    Some of the changes were to help the AI handle slow research (the first attempt at doing this pre-G&K left the AI stagnant - they actually REFUSED to research and would often remain in Ancient Era when I was in Modern) while others were to give something to do while waiting for research to come along (like moving Process Wealth to Agriculture, for one).
     
  7. Espartafilardo

    Espartafilardo Chieftain

    Joined:
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    When you work for free, it's definitely excusable to include stuff that's for your own benefit :)

    What's interesting (or vexing) is how much COULD or SHOULD be done, balance-wise, in response to a few "simple" changes involving Civ 5 research speed, for ex.

    When I made my simple Civ 4 progress-stopping mods, I decided that all I could do was apply a few band-aids to the most glaring problems (that I perceived).

    Other problems could be avoided: I knew there was no point starting a non-pangaea type map when the lowest-tech mods were enabled, for example. If I had shared my work, that issue (among many others) would have required a disclaimer, or further work.
     
  8. segrix

    segrix Chieftain

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2007
    Messages:
    27
    Hi, Barghaest.
    What game speed do you recommend to play your mod?
     
  9. Barghaest

    Barghaest Chieftain

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    758
    I've been using Legendary Standard while testing... I'd probably recommend Legendary Quick for first time users since it's significantly longer than Marathon; however, my friend who was helping in early alpha testing uses Legendary Epic and tells me he loves the pace of it.
     
  10. Shoryn

    Shoryn Chieftain

    Joined:
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    This mod seems to suit my playing style ! Maybe dumb question : Does it include Communitas pack or is it compatible with it ?
     
  11. Barghaest

    Barghaest Chieftain

    Joined:
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    It doesn't include the complete Communitas pack, I did include a few things (snow/desert taking 2 move for one) and I was inspired heavily by VEM when I started making it. I will probably include more eventually but it is not compatible with it.
     
  12. Shoryn

    Shoryn Chieftain

    Joined:
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    After reading everything in detail, I think this modification is just suited for me and will definitely try it :) Another question : did you try playing it with City-State Diplomacy mod ? I think it should be compatible (at least with the no-DLL version) ? Same question for Civ4 Diplomatic Features ? Maybe with this one, since your mod use the Various Mod Components package as well ?
    Sorry to bother you with compatibility questions but I think a combination of these plus your mod would be really epic :)
     
  13. Shoryn

    Shoryn Chieftain

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    Hi Barghaest !
    Well I tried yesterday, they don't seem to get along very well - I get the "entire list of tech" bug from Civ4 DF, and didn't have the chance to test CSD yet. I'm eager to try to merge them myself as well as adding CEP features, but since my modding experience come only from Civ4 I'll probably need some training :rolleyes:
    A lot of work is awaiting, I guess :D
     
  14. Malinov

    Malinov Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2013
    Messages:
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    Location:
    Hungary
    Strange, I have CSD and the Diplo mod activated alongside this (using the various mod components stuff), 500+ turns in a game, and everything's fine. Are you sure you installed everything correctly?
    By the way, awesome mod Barghaest, I've been waiting for something like this for a long time. :D My only complaint is that the AI seems very passive, even Shaka rarely wages war in my game... Though I've been using Communitas up until now, so maybe I just got used to that. :)
     
  15. Shoryn

    Shoryn Chieftain

    Joined:
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    Interesting news ! Could you tell me your exact setup of mods please (with versions) ? I shall have something along the rest causing issues.
    I thing it would be perfect to get this working with these mods plus adding more interesting features from Communitas. I've been waiting for a long-research-short-production pace like I used to have in Civ4 :)
     
  16. Malinov

    Malinov Chieftain

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    Alrighty, here's a pic of my mods folder. I use everything in my current game, except Communitas, and the custom civs. The game is patched up to the latest version.
     

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  17. Shoryn

    Shoryn Chieftain

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    Thank you ! I'll try with that setup. :)

    Edit: Unfortunately, Civ4 Diplo features doesn't seem to work for me. :sad:
    I have almost the same setup as you, but with less mods.
    That's what I get when I go on diplomacy with a civ I just met. Basically, the Civ4 diplomacy features are useless and do nothing plus I get a complete list of technology which I can't trade (well I can, but nothing happens)
     

    Attached Files:

  18. Malinov

    Malinov Chieftain

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    Glad to help, lemme know if it works. :)
     
  19. Shoryn

    Shoryn Chieftain

    Joined:
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    Just tried, doesn't seem to work, at least for Civ4 Diplomacy. I still need to encounter a city-state to try CSD ! I've attached screencaps in my above post.

    Edit : Oh wait, I'm dumb. Definitely dumb. I didn't properly install the Various Mod Comps. That's what I get when I want to get everything too fast !
     
  20. Barghaest

    Barghaest Chieftain

    Joined:
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    I was planning on adding full compatibility with those mods a bit later... been playing Civ 5 pretty heavily for past two months, so taking a short break from my test game this week (Borderlands 2), but I did plan to test with those two a bit later (I did like what I read of CSD).

    Yeah, that's always been a bit of an issue with my mod, while the AI may DoW me several times during Ancient when my army is small, it tends to be passive towards me later in the game (although I've had no issues with the AI battling amongst themselves). Now that the core functions seem to be working properly (still haven't thoroughly tested late game mechanics apart from a few advanced starts) I plan on seeing what I can do with AI and checking more features of Communitas to add in.

    The AI was far more aggressive before I altered the difficulty settings; however, they also tended to seriously outperform the player on lower difficulties because their bonuses have tremendous impact on their research capabilities.

    Yes, my Pick N Mix Compendium doesn't activate those Custom Mod Options, so you would need William Howard's mod to do so when using CSD versions that require DLL enhancement.
     

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