"Legends" (multi-game leader bonuses)

[bbbt]

I finally watched the livestream, and their was the offhand comment about 'legends' - bonuses you get for playing the same leader a lot.

There appeared to be one when picking legacies:

So leaders potentially get bonus legacy options you can choose if you've replayed them a lot?

What do people think about this? Is this the first time Civ has done 'gameplay unlocks' (where playing the game unlocks different features for future games)?

 

[AriochIV]

I'm not a huge fan of "progression" unlocks in a game like this, OR bonus+malus pairings.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

I finally watched the livestream, and their was the offhand comment about 'legends' - bonuses you get for playing the same leader a lot.

There appeared to be one when picking legacies:

View attachment 709124

So leaders potentially get bonus legacy options you can choose if you've replayed them a lot?

What do people think about this? Is this the first time Civ has done 'gameplay unlocks' (where playing the game unlocks different features for future games)?

I was a little hesitant about the idea gameplay unlocks, like NG+ kinds of things. For a game like civ, that would be like a cheat code. But if this is an example, it's not necessarily an imbalance, just something that makes your strategy a little different. A twist.

 

[The_goggles_do_nothing]

Seems like a harmless way to make each game different.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

I don't like it. If I like playing as a certain civ/leader, it's because I like playing as a certain civ/leader, not a changed version.

 

[AriochIV]

Seems like a harmless way to make each game different.

It seems harmless, especially since it's an optional card to play... it just seems like a silly thing to spend effort on. Like so they can check some marketing box somewhere. "Gamers like Skinner boxes progression!"

 

[uppi]

You are paying for it with a legacy point, which you could spend on other good stuff, so it is not necessarily an advantage. It depends on how balanced and how grindy it is. I don't want to play 10 games with Isabella to get access to that one OP legacy option. But it would also be wasted if the options are so weak that nobody uses them. Getting it meaningful, but not too meaningful, will be tough, but let's see.

 

[bbbt]

It seems harmless, especially since it's an optional card to play... it just seems like a silly thing to spend effort on. Like so they can check some marketing box somewhere. "Gamers like Skinner boxes progression!"

Fair. If they were doing something like this, I think I'd prefer they took a page from boardgames and did a full "Civilation Legacy" game mode or some sort of 'campaign' style where multiple things carry over to your next game (but you can also just play a normal/non-legacy clean slate game).

I don't like it. If I like playing as a certain civ/leader, it's because I like playing as a certain civ/leader, not a changed version.

It does seem like it's just gonna be an in-game reminder of how much time I've spent playing the game.

 

[Mr Jon of Cheam]

Not an idea I particularly care for but we'll see, could help to keep things fresh every now and then I suppose.

 

[Evolena]

I finally watched the livestream, and their was the offhand comment about 'legends' - bonuses you get for playing the same leader a lot.

There appeared to be one when picking legacies:

View attachment 709124

So leaders potentially get bonus legacy options you can choose if you've replayed them a lot?

What do people think about this? Is this the first time Civ has done 'gameplay unlocks' (where playing the game unlocks different features for future games)?

There were also the counterpart, Isabella Exploration Legend Economic, for more Gold and less Food. That seems tied to the Leader's attributes.

It's good that is only gives an option, that you take instead of something else. Namely a single attribute point for the Leader Abilities Tree, as I think that's the only thing that costs 1 Legacy point.

 

[stealth_nsk]

Wasted use of dev time IMO. Why not just make it available without grinding, in case I want to check it out? There are better ways of keeping Civ fresh: play as a different leader, different map, different age start, aiming for different legacies, etc... Besides, if someone played 10 games in a row as Isabella, I'm willing to bet they don't it to "keep it fresh" at all.

It very much looks like someone looked at rogue-lites and decided to copy their meta progression / randomisation because "why not?" Better question to ask would have been "what far?"

There are different kinds of players and I assume such things will increase play time for some completionists. Also, people who play multiplayer may want to grab as many options as possible. So, I guess it will give some fun for some players.

 

[pokiehl]

It’s an interesting twist. I’m glad they aren’t just like “cheat codes.”

 

[UWHabs]

Not an idea I particularly care for but we'll see, could help to keep things fresh every now and then I suppose.

If they're all like the above, then yeah, I could see it be a way to change up the gameplay so it's not same-same every time.

 

[stealth_nsk]

Will that be extra time that those completionists enjoy? It's easy to carry on playing a game until you 100% it, but hate that's it's "forcing" you to do that. As for MP, if the optimal way to play as Isabella online is to first play 9 games with her in SP to unlock an extra option, then that actually makes the game worse! If it that extra option doesn't matter, then why have it at all? Repetitive, tedious padding for the sake of padding is not a good thing.

Those are great questions and I don't have answers for them. In general, civ games have so much replayability, what several games with one leader doesn't feel repetitive. And if it forces players to try new strategies, this could actually add interest.

 

[Siptah]

Where is that number 10 coming from?

My guess is that you unlock the legacy trait once you complete the respective attribute tree with the leader. E.g., finished militaristic tree with Isabella in your first game = legendary militaristic legacy unlocked for her.

 

[TheSpaceCowboy]

Meta-progression and unlocks are the secret sauce that makes Age of Wonders 4 so wonderful.
I'm glad that Civ is implementing something similar, and especially hope that there are plenty of cosmetic unlocks as well.

 

[kryat]

I really like this idea. I played AoE3 original a lot when it was new in part because you had to earn the XP as a civ to unlock more bonuses for future games. However, in the DE rerelease the bonuses are all available to the player from the start. I’ve found myself much less interested in starting a game of AoE3: DE because once I’ve played a civ one time, I feel like I’ve already seen everything there is to see. The an availability of unlocking extra features will pull me back. I also really love the bonus and malus design. Some of my favorites in 6 were Māori, Babylon, Mali, and Maya who all had some aspect of this. You couldn’t fire up the game and expect to play the same strategy every time. They were an interesting puzzle to figure out. I’m hopeful this feeling gets recaptured with these legacy bonuses.

 

[Uberfrog]

It’s one of the more unexpected changes, but I can see the probably motivation. People don’t finish games, so motivate them to do so with extra gameplay options as a reward.

I am not particularly bothered by it, as they seem to be +/- type trade-offs. There is a concern in multiplayer if any are particularly strong, but based on other decisions they could just disallow them entirely or make them optional.

Personally I am unlikely to unlock any of these. I tend to play a broad brush approach where I play each leader once or twice each rather than replaying over and over again.

 

[moysturfurmer]

I don’t know if I love the idea of gameplay unlocks being locked behind meta progression, but it’s encouraging to see that it’s not just flat boosts. Could have been worse.

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

Where is that number 10 coming from?

My guess is that you unlock the legacy trait once you complete the respective attribute tree with the leader. E.g., finished militaristic tree with Isabella in your first game = legendary militaristic legacy unlocked for her.

My theory is that these don't come from attribute trees, but their respective "narrative quests".

This was shown in the Augustus Antuquity livestream I believe, we could see that he had a random quest of buiding 4 Monuments or something.

Me thinks completing paths (because I believe you can approach/complete different paths) unlock the Legends.