Leonardo's Workshop (The TECH Thread)

[damnrunner]

Does Sancta already have banking? And what is their and our respective GDP in the demographics? Also just to double check but they aren't in a golden age any more are they?

If they have banking - they will beat us to Econ. Unless we are generating a much higher GDP than they are now (which is doubtful).

however, even losing the Econ race may have some benefit. When we switch to Theo it would be nice to also be able to switch to Free market. And while Sancta getting a free GM would be bad - it does pull them away from teching military techs - which may be worse.

 

[Sommerswerd]

Everyone has Banking.

We need 46 GPT to stay at 100%. I asked HUSch for 1 turn worth of Gold to be on the safe side... He has been a little unhappy about gifting Gold lately... Mostly at Cavalieros, not us.

We started Econ, but no hammers invested yet, so if we are switching we should do it before next turn ends.

 

[damnrunner]

Thanks for the info and sorry for all the questions.

I think Sancta has a very good chance of beating us to Econ. But the Gov switch by Saturn is interesting. They won’t be able to finance Sancta research for a few turns (2 right) unless they already have a large gold stockpile. Also Sancta just lost all their trade routes to Saturn do to the Mercantile switch.

Any data on sancta/Saturn gold reserves. If they are low (under 150) I think we have over 50% chance of getting econ. If not, it is probably less than 50%. That said – it still might be worth it for the trade routes and to potentially distract Sancta from military techs.

I previously said that I thought Sancta might also be going for Chem/steel. Another option might be for them to try and pick up Mil Tradition. But that would make the most sense if they already had a large number of knights in reserve to upgrade. However, this does not appear to be the case.

 

[Sommerswerd]

Ask away . What are "turnplayers" for?

SANCTA has 23 , and Saturn has 15 .

Civics are -
Saturn: HR, Nat, Caste, Merc, Pagan
SANCTA: Repres, Bureau, Caste, Merc, Free Rel
MS: HR, Bureau, Slave, Decentral, Org Rel
Cav: HR, Bureau, Slave, Decentral, Theoc

We are in: HR, Bureau, Slave, Decentral, Org Rel

FYI MS is already sending us 75GPT. Our commerce slider says we still need another 46 GPT to stay at 100% tech.

 

[damnrunner]

I think we are in pretty good shape to go after Econ then. That is my vote.

Sancta could pull it off 1st but they would have to run a ton of specialists which will hurt their production and growth.

 

[Sommerswerd]

Great Scientist bulb would give 1689 for Scientific Method. Scientific Method is 3588 so that would leave 1899 for us to produce naturally.

At 435 per turn (at 100%) it would take us 5 turns to get Scientific Method. So using the bulb would basically save us 2 turns of research.

Scientific Method also obsoletes The Great Library and Monastaries. We should get a few Monastaries before we obsolete them so that we can spread our religions without staying permanently in Organized religion. You can still build Missionaries in cities with monastaries, even after the other effects of the Monastary becomes obsolete (and you can't build any new monastaries.)

Also, Im sure folks are not ready for us to obsolete the Great Library yet.

Based on this, I would settle the GSci in Haz.

 

[donsig]

Settling the GS sounds like the right thing to do.

 

[damnrunner]

What is our next tech goal.

Once we have Rifle we should drop to 0% research but we will still be generating about 40 beakers per turn. And we don't want to double tech the same thing as MS or Team Cav.

Military Tradition (2000) I understood MS was going to start on this. I think it should be the next main priority for our tech plans. But if MS is on it then leave it to them.

Steam Power (3200) My 2nd choice as we have a lot of rivers and levees would be really helpful. But we won't be building levees if we are in a tough conflict so maybe it is best to wait.

Military Science (2000) Useful but not crucial. Cav researches this next?

Corporation (1600) More trade routes is great but again not crucial.

Scientific method (2400). It will be needed but I think we want to hold off as it kills the GL and eliminate our ability to build monasteries.

 

[mikotian]

I think we should tech toward military academies which I think is enabled by military science. Academies also make slaving much more efficient.

If we get into a protracted war, the extra war production could be the best thing we can do right now, since the next significant military upgrade (infantry) is not for a long time.

With our redcoats, it's less critical that we tech toward cavalry IMO.

Corporation would be my 2nd choice probably. It's a cheap tech that pays BIG dividends in terms of economy for our entire alliance. Cav, us, and MS combined probably have like 40 cities... with the various multipliers from trade, we could be talking about 100+ raw commerce and several hundred end beakers per turn. The tech pays for itself in 5-8 turns!

 

[damnrunner]

Good points Milko. Trade routes from corporation will be a big boost and it is a fairly cheap tech.

Did not know we could build military academies - that would also be very useful.

I like Mil Tradition as I think having cavalry will be very useful should Sancta start pumping out Grenadiers. Pinch upgraded Cavalry will be our best defensive unit against Grenadiers.

That is 3 techs and our alliance is 3 teams.

 

[cav scout]

Well we can't build military academies but we can create them with a great general (just like creating a scientific academy with a great scientist). Military academies give a 50% production bonus for units.

 

[damnrunner]

Tech options - so we had some discussion. This is what I have taken from our discussion.

Mil Sci
So the Military Academy is enabled by Mil Sci – but can only be built with a GG. If our 1st GG is going to be used for a super medic – it will not be necessary to Mil Sci right away.

Mil Sci also gives grenadiers and men-o-war. The main reason we would want these units is if Sancta has them. Each unit is good at countering units we have (rifles/frigates) and once sancta has them we will need to counter their counter. However, having them before Sancta does not do us a huge amount of good. Our redcoats are just as effective vs. Santa rifles and our theocracy upgraded frigates will have a boost over sancta’s non-upgraded frigates. Team Cav could benefit some from Grenadiers but

I think it makes a lot of sense to let Sancta tech Mil Sci 1st so that we get the % boost of researching it after other teams already have it.

Corp
I am increasingly in favor of Corporation as our next tech. It is fairly cheap and will provide a big alliance wide commerce boost. Also it is on the way to Assembly Line – which will be a needed Tech.

Mil Trad
Cavalry are a great counter to Grenadiers. They are also useful against cannons. Also it will be very useful for Team Cav as their units have to travel quite a distance to get to the front line and stronger fast units will be helpful. For this reason I think Mil Trad is a better tech choice over Mil Sci.

Steam Engine
This tech will take a while and does not confer any immediate military benefits. I think after Corp and Mil Trad it is our best tech option.


Alliance wide Tech Plans
My thinking is that we go for Corp and then either Steam Engine or Mil Trad. MS or Cav go for Mil Trad or Mil Sci. The 3rd team provides cash. We also should send a message to MS and Team Cav on their tech plans.


Proposed message to MS.

Spoiler :

We are trying to think though what the best allocation of tech priorities is for the alliance going forward. To update, we are going to finish Rifling in 3 turns. After that we may run a few turns of 0% science as we may need some cash for upgrades. But generally we think we should try to stay at 100% science as we have the best ratio for converting commerce into science (we have Oxford and 2 academies).

It would be useful to know how much cash you can generate at 0% science and how many beakers you can generate at 100% science. At this point you may be more efficient than Team Cav in producing beakers.

At the moment we are undecided on our next tech priorities. But we should be making a decision fairly soon.

Proposed message to Team Cav

Spoiler :

We are trying to think though what the best allocation of tech priorities is for the alliance going forward. To update, we are going to finish Rifling in 3 turns. After that we may run a few turns of 0% science as we may need some cash for upgrades. But generally we think we should try to stay at 100% science as we have the best ratio for converting commerce into science (we have Oxford and 2 academies).

It would be useful to know how much cash you can generate at 0% science and how many beakers you can generate at 100% science. At this point you may be less efficient than MS in producing beakers.

At the moment we are undecided on our next tech priorities. But we should be making a decision fairly soon.

 

[cav scout]

Sent the messages to MS and CAV.

 

[donsig]

I'm in favor of corporation next.

 

[damnrunner]

We get rifles in 2 turns - then (after switching to Nationalism) we can generate about 650 beakers per turn at 100% Science. With our GA ending in 2 more turns if we stay at 100% science it should take 3 or 4 turns to get Corp.

But we only have 227 spare gold right now so we may need to put that commerce into cash for upgrades.

 

[donsig]

I thought we were going to focus on the upgrades first and just start our next tech on minimum science.

 

[cav scout]

Yeah we are going to need boatloads of cash for upgrades so we should probably run at 0% science after Rifling until all upgrades are complete. We will be getting cash from CAV and MS too so hopefully it won't take too long. We do need to decide on our next tech though since we will still make a few beakers each turn and don't want those wasted.

Oh and I support Corp next also.

 

[damnrunner]

My alliance wide tech proposal. We all go 100% cash for the next few turns for upgrades. Then


We go for Corp (1600) and then Steam (3200) @ 100% science.

MS goes for Mil Trad (2000) Then Mil Sci (2000) @100% science

Cav provides $ for each team and starts Sci Method (2400) to the extent possible. Once the timing is right MS switches back to 100% cash so Cav can finish Sci Method. This will probably be after MS finishes Mil Trad but before they finish Mil Sci.

If we think this works lets run it by MS and Cav to see what they think.

 

[cav scout]

We would have to tech constitution first before teching corp. CAV already has Sci Method as their placeholder tech. Might be best for MS to continue providing the cash while we run 100%.

 

[damnrunner]

did not realize crop required const - I am a fool.