Leoreth Plays Japan

[1SDANi]

If anyone has ideas for an alternative Japanese UP, just let me know. But I don't think this change is urgent, and I won't get to it immediately as part of working on Japan now.

The power of god and anime

 

[Leoreth]

I said UP, not OP

 

[need my speed]

Bug for you, that I think has been known for years; look at your screenshots, and see 'Argentina signs defensive pact with'.

Well, with whom?

 

[Hickman888]

If anyone has ideas for an alternative Japanese UP, just let me know. But I don't think this change is urgent, and I won't get to it immediately as part of working on Japan now.View attachment 589856 [/spoiler]

The Power of Modernization: 50% discount on upgrading units. This lets the player keep more in their treasury, for maximizing their tech rate. It also potentially allows the conquest goal to be expanded a bit (Hawaii?), as the player will be able to have a modern military, sooner, for dealing with the advanced western powers

 

[FraggleJock]

Working with friends:: the peace modifier of trade routes is doubled

 

[RustyBrick]

One idea is that Japan could get beakers from trade routes with friendly/pleased civs in the industrial era and beyond

 

[Leoreth]

Which Japanese trait would that reflect?

 

[MechatronicJazz]

One idea is that Japan could get beakers from trade routes with friendly/pleased civs in the industrial era and beyond

Which Japanese trait would that reflect?

My understanding is that Japan's diplomacy after its isolationist period ended was centred on building a strong military to compete with European colonial powers so that it could engage in diplomacy with them on more equal footing. Based on that, I don't think Japan should get a bonus from positive relations. Instead, I think the UP should encourage military build up with a reward for diplomacy and/or economy. For example, enhanced tech diffusion for having a large relative military strength. Or a bonus to diplo relations and congresses that is proportional to relative military strength and success in wars.

 

[troubleshooting]

I recently studied japan from 1860 onward, so I think @RustyBrick’s suggestion could be reflective of how in the Meiji period, the Japanese ruling class toured Europe and learned as much as they could about industrial technology, military organization, and the marginally democratic governments of the time. This is reflected in how the Meiji emperor’s dress evolved over time from more traditional garb to a more western military uniform.

Personally, I concur with @MechatronicJazz that a military bonus would be helpful, and could synergize with the Himeji castle, which is already integral to the HV strategy as japan. Maybe a bonus to building military units that the tech leader(s) have more of than you? I suggested this elsewhere but another idea would be changing the Zaibatsu to replace the Trading Company, maybe have it give a bonus to producing gunpowder units based on number of colonies or something like that?

 

[johnfloyd27]

Imperial zeal: All units get a bonus to attack, but a penalty to defense.

The rising sun: Easier golden ages - perhaps starting wars, conquering territory, or advancing to new tech ages triggers them.

Meiji Restoration: Bonus to beakers on mainland Japan after contact is made with the U.S.

-OR-

A big bonus to espionage. Maybe spies travel many times faster and get an huge reduction to espionage costs when used in a Capital. This would be a great way to capture how japan absorbed technology from China early on and Europe and the US during the restoration, and I don’t think we have many (if any) espionage civics. It even could play to “corporate espionage” in the 20th century and be used to steal tech or interfere with others’ research.

 

[MechatronicJazz]

I recently studied japan from 1860 onward, so I think @RustyBrick’s suggestion could be reflective of how in the Meiji period, the Japanese ruling class toured Europe and learned as much as they could about industrial technology, military organization, and the marginally democratic governments of the time. This is reflected in how the Meiji emperor’s dress evolved over time from more traditional garb to a more western military uniform.

Personally, I concur with @MechatronicJazz that a military bonus would be helpful, and could synergize with the Himeji castle, which is already integral to the HV strategy as japan. Maybe a bonus to building military units that the tech leader(s) have more of than you? I suggested this elsewhere but another idea would be changing the Zaibatsu to replace the Trading Company, maybe have it give a bonus to producing gunpowder units based on number of colonies or something like that?

Thanks for the perspective from your studies! It could be interesting to reflect Japan's adoption of some European ideas and technologies. Japan was not unique in sending delegations to 'Western' countries to learn though - however, they were one of the only non-European powers at the time to successfully challenge European colonial expansion AND launch imperial/colonial expansion of their own.

My suggestion is actually sort of the reverse of yours. I don't think that Japan should get a military bonus, I think they should get a bonus in something else when they already have a large military. My reasoning is that Japan was able to build alliances with European colonial powers by demonstrating their military power, particularly by defeating Russia at a time when Europeans assumed any European power would automatically defeat other peoples. It's an interesting contrast with China at the time: China lost a number of wars with Europeans and was forced into extremely one-sided treaties; Japan won wars, so it had a degree of respect from European imperial powers and entered into alliances with Britain.

Interesting tie-in to Canadian history: despite widespread anti-Japanese racism in Western Canada (mostly British Columbia) in the late 19th and early 20th century, the government was limited in passing laws against the Japanese because Canada was still a part of the British Empire and the British wanted to maintain the alliance. At the same time, Canada had no trouble passing anti-Chinese laws. It wasn't until WW2 that Canada could openly legislate against Japanese people in the country.

 

[freethink]

Minor Request:
Could Hawaii be part of Japan's historical area.

History:
Japanese emigrated to Hawaii before it became part of the US
Japanese were 43% of Hawaiian Population in 1920 still 16% today
King Kalākaua requested a close relationship with Japan a Pan Asian-Pacific Confederation
Japan protested US annexation of the territory

Game:
Might simulate US/Japan conflicts over the area
Orientate AI Japan to have a Pacific as well as an Asian presence

 

[HighFunctioningAlcoholic]

Minor Request:
Could Hawaii be part of Japan's historical area.

History:
Japanese emigrated to Hawaii before it became part of the US
Japanese were 43% of Hawaiian Population in 1920 still 16% today
King Kalākaua requested a close relationship with Japan a Pan Asian-Pacific Confederation
Japan protested US annexation of the territory

Game:
Might simulate US/Japan conflicts over the area
Orientate AI Japan to have a Pacific as well as an Asian presence

Childhood trauma story: My hair was curly & 100% white (not blonde) as a child. When I visited Hawaii in the early 2000s, Japanese tourists (which was most of them) would come up and rub my hair, no matter the circumstance (the beach, walking to the store, Pearl Harbor memorial, etc).

 

[Genghis Khaiser]

Minor Request:
Could Hawaii be part of Japan's historical area.

I've been requesting for a long time to extend the 2nd UHV to 1945 in exchange for including Hawaii or even all of the Pacific.

 

[Gritzeldrei]

Finally finally: look what America did in this game, I've never seen them do this before:
Spoiler :

In most of my games, it's common for the Americans to settle in Alaska and Hawaii. Whenever I play America I don't settle those areas as they just increase my city maintenance.

 

[brett0007]

I've been requesting for a long time to extend the 2nd UHV to 1945 in exchange for including Hawaii or even all of the Pacific.

Yeah, go ahead and make modern Polynesia runs practically Impossible

 

[youtien]

My emperor/normal game.
Started as Korea, founded Kaijo - Kyoto, built the Jet wonder(+1 food for artist and doesn't obsolete) in Kaijo. Got a GS and built academy in Kyoto before Japan spawn. Conquered Kaijo after switching to Japanese. Stayed Kyoto - Edo - Kaijo 3 cities until 1405. Used 2 GA and settled one GA to reach average 6000 culture. Founded Kagoshima - Qiqihaer - Ritoru Oosaka(San Francisco) right after.
Pumped all 3 conqueror events, then moved those army back to mainland China and conquered indy Chinese cities. The rest is simple: rush to industrial age, found more cities in core for stability. Maybe I shouldn't cheat.

 

[LikeNothing]

One thing I have considered in the context of this is to make the Japanese UP a general mechanic available to everyone to help with catching up and tech diffusion. One way this could work is that the overall diffusion rate would be lower than what Japan currently has, but there is a civ modifier to allow some differentiation. That way Japan, and other civs that are historically known for catching up in technology, can still have a stronger benefit from it.

I absolutely agree.

If anyone has ideas for an alternative Japanese UP, just let me know. But I don't think this change is urgent, and I won't get to it immediately as part of working on Japan now.

I give 3 ideas for Bushido; please feel free to choose any combination.

Bushido - Honor
Wounded units do not suffer penalty to attack.

Bushido - Sacrifice
Units dying in combat passes half of their XP to your other units nearby.

Bushido - Simplicity
Units always have heal rate and costs as if they are in a domestic city.

Shinto
Shinto is always available as a normal State Religion, and allows building of Wonders requiring other State Religions.

Tenno
Always receives the bonuses of Monarchy (including Stability bonus, but not penalty) regardless of what Civics you are running.

 

[Enyavar]

A note on my own recent Japan game; this might also be relevant for other seefaring nations where the player gets an advance start to build Privateers:
Privateers should have a small chance of souring relations with the nation whose ships they sank.

If only 10% of all the ships I sank as Japan, had given me a -1 diplo malus with the owner nations, I would have racked up over -56 negative diplomacy, mostly but not exclusively with Spain, France, England, Netherlands, Morocco and Tamils.
Instead, they shunned me for not being their religion, but kept peace with me.

 

[GuitarDemon]

I think a short term solution to JAPANs unique ability is possibly make other civs more likely to trade techs with you? This way you unlock the techs much sooner? Not sure if this would be unbalanced though

I’m glad to see the modifiers being rebalanced. Recently went back to try to beat a UHV on monarch difficulty and England had finished 8 or more global techs by 1890s