I have tried several times to get into Paradox games such as EU and HOI. But for me, the learning curve is just too step. This together with the bland graphics (except for the actual map which looks great) and lack of action have always made me quit the game after a few hours. I don't think I ever finished a game.
Civ is certainly more accessible and gives you nice visual feedback of your actions. In contrast to paradox games, Civ does feel like a real game instead of just an interface.
I can imagine though that once you "get" the paradox game, the experience can be very rewarding. I have read some of the AAR reports on the paradox forum and found them to be very entertaining.
Personally, I don't mind older-looking graphics. Especially in a strategy game like these games. I mean, pretty graphics are nice and all, but I'd rather have solid gameplay than fully animated leader heads IN THREEEEEE DEEEEEEEEEE or whatever. Don't get me wrong -- I recognize that for some people, older graphics is a turn-off, especially in a slower-paced game. I'm just saying that for me it's not a big deal.
I don't disagree with you, either, that EU3 has older graphics. Apparently this improved with the Divine Wind add-on, but I haven't bought that yet.
Not sure what you mean by "just an interface", though. If you mean that Civ lets you control more minutiae and/or is a bit more gamey....yeah, can't argue there. It definitely is, and if that's what you dig, then Civ is definitely more the series for you. EU3 is a bit more hands-off in terms of how things get done. There is (and I know this will sound odd, but go with me on it) less of a "tactile" quality to the gameplay itself, so if that's what you're getting at, I definitely agree. With some games -- especially strategy games -- I don't mind this.
Victoria II is awesome. Complexity wise, it's about right.
I really hope they come out with an expansion for it.
EU3 is pretty complex and deep I think. It also keeps getting better and better like any good gaming series should.
There are so many ways to play that game. You can make the game as challenging as you like as you can more or less set your own goals. Top notch.
Well, there's complexity and there's complexity.
I think the "complexity" of EU3 is in learning the interface itself and what all the terms mean/stand for. Once you get that, it's pretty straightforward in terms of how difficult it is to control the game. The "complexity" at that point is more along the lines of the depth you mentioned. There are a LOT of ways to get the job done, and a lot of variables that you can contend with in a game. But doing so -- once you get past the initial interface learning curve -- really isn't that hard. Certainly, no individual task is difficult to execute (note: execute, NOT execute SUCCESSFULLY. I still get pissed when I have a relationship at 200 with some OPM and the bastards REPEATEDLY refuse a royal marriage/vassalization/annexation). The difficulty at that point comes from the juggling act of dealing with all of them at once....but you can pause the game, so that strikes me as less of an issue. Outside of that, it's understanding the concepts themselves.
What I like about EU3, though, is that it is, primarily, conceptual. You can be a number cruncher like in Civ, but the actual "profit margin" from playing that way is going to be minimal by comparison with a Civ game. In a Civ game, the math wiz will always win because he's willing to micro-manage stuff enough to eke out the most beakers/hammers/tile yields, etc. That's complex in a way, but I find it to be more...gamey and mechanical than conceptual. I gather that some folks dig that element and dislike the hands-off nature of EU3. Much of that stuff is done behind the scenes for you, from what I can tell, so you never really have the ability to control a lot of that. All of that is fine by me. In fact, I prefer it.
I'd rather be focused on, say, inciting a revolt on Burgundy's eastern border so as to draw its armies away from the west and allow me to recapture Calais or whatever, instead of juggling tile yields to ensure that I get exactly the right number of food units to produce a settler without too much overage on shields to blah blah blah. But hey,
) to the massification for the sake of easy money (a.k.a. streamlining, shaferization, whatever you want to call it). That in itself deserves a lot of respect as compared to other developers that sucumbed to mediocrity lately...
