Let's compare: Colosseum UB's

[Hyoga]

From the BTS Civilopedia:

Colosseum, +1
+1 per 20%
Costs 80 hammers

Alright, that's the basic. Here are the UB's:

1) Babylonian

Garden, +1 , +2
+1 per 20%
Costs 80 hammers

--> Total upgrade from base Colosseum: +2
--> Total downgrade from base Colosseum: N\A

2) Mayan

Ball Court, +3
+1 per 20%
Costs 80 hammers

--> Total upgrade from base Colosseum: +2
--> Total downgrade from base Colosseum: N/A

3) Greece

Odeon, +2, +3
+1 per 20%
Can turn 2 Citizens into Artist
+1 from Hit Singles
Costs 80 hammers

--> Total upgrade from base Colosseum:
+1
+3
2 Artists
from Hit Singles
--> Total downgrade from base Colosseum: N/A

I'm sorry, what?

The list of extra benefits from the Odeon is freaking huge! It's way superior to either the Ball Court or the Garden. What gives? Why does it get so much more stuff than the others? Like, it's not only one or two things more, it's a lot of stuff!

Going even further, the Garden is even inferior to the Ball Court! I mean, even the traits show that happines is more important than health. Charismatic gets one free happy face and then makes you work for the other one by building stuff. Old Expansive was +3 health. +3 health compared to +1 happiness shows that maybe happiness is a bit more important. Even the new Expansive still gives you +2 health directly, which is still less than the 1 happy face you get directly from Charismatic.

So what's going on Firaxis? Why do the new BTS Colosseum replacements completely suck compared to the old one, and why is one BTS UB even superior to another BTS UB of the same replacement?

I just don't see the justification.

 

[azzaman333]

Ball Court is very good, however the Garden is sub-par.

 

[hoopsnerd]

I agree with you completely. Its not like the Greeks need an Uber UB to make up for bad leaders or a bad UU either, so that's out.

I think all the BtS UBs seem stronger than their vanilla and warlords counterparts. DIKE? PLEASE!!! Rauthus? Please. Totem Pole? Might as well call it "Great Wall that costs 30 hammers." Theres more examples but I gotta go now .

I also want the Redcoats and Cossacks unnerfed a bit - they both took a beating!

 

[Hyoga]

Ball Court is very good, however the Garden is sub-par.

Sure, but you need to compare it to the Odeon. Is the Ball Court as good as the Odeon? I don't think so, not when you look at all the other things the Odeon gets. And I don't think we should be satisfied with UB's that are "good but not as good".

 

[azzaman333]

Yes it is. Generally the culture will be coming from places other than the Colosseum, and a 3 bonus over a 2 is much more useful, especially when the Colosseum first becomes available.

 

[mrt144]

the thing that bothers me about the odeon is the artist specialist abilities.

 

[Quildavyr]

Dike bothers me.Water tiles +1 hammer?WTH?
Found a city on a remote island,in a few years it will be wonderstore.

 

[Instant_Cereal]

It depends on your strategy. As both Greek leaders are phil, the extra 2 artists from the odeon is immensely amplified. It's also a great building to build first in new cities when playing as Alexander.

I like the odeon the most. I like to build about 2 - 3 gp cities and the gp bonus from the artists and phil traits allow me to not only wage an aggressive military campaign (Alexander, mainly), but I'm also capable of churning out more artists for waging cultural war. I can do this without having to bother with caste system.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

The Babylonian UB is in line with others that give 2 Health, although weak for a generally useless building. However the Bablonian UU is good.

It's the Mayan and Greek that are slightly overpowered (the Greek isn't too useful outside of a culture win given the limited use of culture)

 

[BYC]

It's nothing new that different civilizations have different advantages and weaknesses.

People complain about praetorians and jaguars, and yet there's still not that much change from the original versions.

 

[Bast]

Odeons rule! Greeks rule!

 

[obliterate]

In my last game I had minimal health problems but when it came to industrialising the garden came in handy. It provided much more than the odeon or the ball court would. It's all situational.

If you're looking at disadvantaged UBs look at the Spain's citadel.

 

[Rex rgis of Ter]

Well, Greeks are centered on Culture. Also, I would say they have a pretty bad UU. The MAyans have a much better UU, and their leaders expansionist trait makes cities very easy to control with +2 and +3. This makes them good expanders. The babaloynian have a good UU, and are fairly balanced. I agree that the Babalyonians are nerfed, but not depressingly so. Hammurabis traits are actually quite useful.

 

[CivFan87]

Dike bothers me.Water tiles +1 hammer?WTH?
Found a city on a remote island,in a few years it will be wonderstore.

The dike is the only UB that I considered unbalanced. 1-tile island cities are next to useless to most civs except for the resources they provide, but having a dike in a 1 tile island city turns it into a decent source of production especially with forge/factory/power

 

[kniteowl]

Garden seems to be more useful in the late game when health is a problem, you may want to delay building it until you have power plants, it's kind of like having 1/3 of the Expansive trait.

Ball Court seems to be more useful in the early game and usually if you play a normal game it makes a huge difference once you reach the late game, chances are you probably already won.

Odeon has some early game benefits, the extra happy, culture and artist and it works extremely well with the Greek leader with the Cre/Phil traits, you can assign 4 Artist without Caste system and your GP Farm can assign 7 or 8 Artist i can't remember how many the Globe theater allows you that, therefore it's very useful for cultural victories. Then it's got the late game happy benefits from cultural wonders like musical hits etc... although that probably isn't as helpful unless you're playing a SE that last into the modern age.

 

[pi-r8]

The Odeon's not really all that good. I mean, first of all, you might as well forget about the extra happiness from hit singles, because that happens soooo late in the game. +3 culture is nice, but it's hardly unbalanced. and 2 artists? Why on earth would you want to run artists? Give me scientists and engineers any day.

 

[Lance of Llanwy]

Hammie gets Archers that stand up to spearmen, and is Agg/Org. So, the garden is appropriate, and health becomes critical during the medieval period and becomes the major growth ******ant through the Industrial era, unless you hit the jack-pot on health resources. You just get a lot of happy resources online late classical, and really should have a religion by then, so happiness is becoming less of a problem, but health is becoming more of a problem.

Overall, it's the weakest colo UB...but it's not terrible. Just not immediately useful...

 

[KaytieKat]

Hi

yeah some UB's are better than others. Some I really like and some annoy me. None of the Collseum replacements bother me too much even if some are better than others. I dont really think UB's should give same benefits even if they replace the same building. That would just defeat purpose of UB since they wouldnt be unique then hehe .

But I dont think they are as bad as say UB's that go obselete or like shale plant who thanks to expansion pack gets new "feature" of adding 2 xtra unhealthiness hehe. I think that waaay overshadows its lil 10% sheild bonus and bonus should have been upped a little to make up for the extra yucky faces. Because way it is now 10% not enough to make me NOT use hyrdro plants or 3 gorges over shale plants when I have a chance to use those instead and when you'd rather use a normal building over a civ's UB that probably sign that UB should be a lil bit better hehe.

Kaytie

 

[Bast]

It depends on your strategy. As both Greek leaders are phil, the extra 2 artists from the odeon is immensely amplified. It's also a great building to build first in new cities when playing as Alexander.

I like the odeon the most. I like to build about 2 - 3 gp cities and the gp bonus from the artists and phil traits allow me to not only wage an aggressive military campaign (Alexander, mainly), but I'm also capable of churning out more artists for waging cultural war. I can do this without having to bother with caste system.

With the new patch, this just got more useful as artists can now end resistance with great works.

 

[scy12]

Odeon is the best as is the only building that can be build with half hammers , if you are using Pericles.

For 40 hammers you get a building that gives :

+ 1
+3
2 Artists
+1 from Hit Singles

I would say , it is one of the best UB.

With Alexander the culture given becomes even more important.